Teams plagued by academic progress requirements, lack of athletic dorms

One person familiar with SEC coaching told the Capstone Report that Nick Saban has been frustrated in his efforts to clean the Alabama program due to NCAA restrictions.

“APR/graduation success rate rules would take scholarships away if Coach (Saban) kicked too many players (off the team),” he said.

When a new coach arrives at a “troubled” school like Alabama, the new coach’s hands are effectively tied. He can’t kick 20 players off the team without seriously damaging the academic standing of the school, we were told.

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Fall low on the academic/graduation progress score and it would lead to potential scholarship reductions—scholarship reductions which can be severe. If you don’t believe that, just ask UAB.

But the NCAA involvement in the problem goes further. When the NCAA outlawed football dorms, it killed the ability of coaches to monitor at-risk players, the Capstone Report was told. The NCAA presidents, led by the Big Ten, outlawed the athletic dorms in 1991. Prior to the 1991 ban, there were an estimated 20 athletic dorms, most of them at major football programs and in the South.

The NCAA proposal was intended to make the student-athlete more like the typical student population. However, many athletes are not prepared for the freedom of college life. Johns was living alone in an apartment, and was unsupervised. If Johns had lived in a heavily monitored athletic dorm (like the old days), does anyone think Saban and the coaching staff would have been in the dark?

In a 1990 NY Times article, Auburn football player Craig Ogletree shared his thoughts on athletic dorms:

”The advantage of the dorm is that sometimes you get some freshmen who come here and aren’t as responsible as others, and they need guidance to make sure they go to class or study hall,” said Craig Ogletree, a senior football player at Auburn.

But academic know-it-all types created a new problem—athletes acting more like the general student population. Drug problems and heavy drinking are a scourge on campus. If you take away supervision, kids (young adults) will act like kids.

So when commentators, internet posters and others assign blame, don’t forget the NCAA.

40 thoughts on “Source: NCAA at fault for discipline problems”

  1. That’s it!!!! It’s the NCAA’s fault!!!

    And it’s the NCAA’s fault that gas is $4 a gallon, and global warming, and the teen pregnancies in Gloucester Mass, and the parking ticket that my friend got the other day, and the coffee maker breaking down at my office. Yeah, THAT’S it!!!

  2. When I was that age, sure I acted like a kid. I went to parties and to clubs. But somehow I found something inside of me called common sense. So yeah, I did some crazy things, but walking around with a kids meal straw hanging out of my nose wasnt one of them. Nor was slinging blow on a school campus. This isnt about Bama, Auburn, or the NCAA. It’s about some people making dumb ass decisions.

  3. Yeah right there Mr.Crown – “loser says it all neighbor ! Don’t anybody know how to act anymore ? They show up acting like their Mommas and dressing like their Mommas.
    There are too many Socio -Economic Issues to address here and the Fact that single parent homes are turning out defective Man-Childs. I would like to stick a boot up Hillary’s Ass for thinking the “Village” can raise the Child “.

  4. How can you say it’s the NCAA’s fault and not thrown Fulmer in there somewhere? If your going to blog about my beloved tide, you better start towing the company line.

    Please amend your story to include that your secret source ‘told you’ that Fulmer was the snitch that lead to JJ’s arrest.

  5. LOL.

    Seriously though, I think it is interesting how football coaches feel hampered in their efforts by the NCAA. The same group of people wanting ever increasing revenue have taken away things which would help the most marginal, and at-risk student-athletes.

    Coaches complained about the loss of athletic dorms in the early 1990’s. I heard them, and tended to ignore them.

    But if we want to hold coaches accountable for player actions, then maybe we should give them the tools to let them monitor and control their players? At least that is what I took away from what I was told. 🙂

  6. I still say we blame Jimmy Johns for what Jimmy Johns did.
    Even thought blamng Fat Phil does sound appealing.

  7. Is keeping a problem athelete due to the APR a GOOD REASON for not cutting a player?

    Alabama accepted JJ during NCAA sanctions. They should have to live by their choice even if “the correction” costs them a little down the road.
    Just because Alabama’s sanction period expired does not mean “they” should catch any APR breaks! Getting back to full strength should take time.

    I am sure there are plenty of players who lack playing skills who are not problems. Nick would love to kick these guys off the squad. This rule protects these atheletes as much as it penalizes the team.

    If its worth anything, I think circumstances like these should not count against a program.

    I feel sorry for JJ in a way, but the justice system will have to deal with him now

  8. Cap-

    You don’t really believe that the NCAA banned athletic dorms in an attempt to make athletes more like everyday students …do you?

  9. Who bailed Johns out of jail? Could it be a Bama Booster? Is that not an NCAA violation? Did Phil Fulmer plant this sting on JJ? Is it a plot initiated by Chette Williams? Could Tommy Bowden be sabotaging the UAT Football program? Does the glove fit?

  10. Honestly, I don’t buy it. Kids will be kids. Thugs will be thugs. Trouble makers will be trouble makers. You give them a diamond, they transform it into a turd. It’s a simple as that.

    And for you backwoods Alabama PolyTECHnic Institute fans, can you recall the many “excuses” you made for Trey Blackmon? Or what about Sir Clifton Robertson? Even the late great Robert Baker the probation maker? Even though it’s obvious by glancing over your college and “city”, still, Alabama PolyTECHnic Institute is no more perfect than any other college – as far as when it comes to sugarcoating the truth.

  11. Hmmmm, Auburn recieved critisism for recruiting 3 star players with charactor. uat got the 5 star drug dealers… Yeah, that about covers it.

  12. Aubman’s got a point there Bammers. You might want to try to recruit some guys with character. Only JJ was just a 3 star.

    There you go though! Bammers playing the blame game. It’s Fulmer’s fault that y’all got sanctioned. Nevermind the fact that y’all were breaking the rules and that’s what you get. Now it’s the NCAA’s fault that JJ was selling coke… even though every college team has to play by those same rules and nobody made JJ go sell that dope. One thing’s for sure. It’ll be Saban’s fault when y’all lose 5 games this year and I can’t wait ’till y’all start calling for his head. Nothing funnier than watching Bammers self destruct.

    Where is Bama headed this year, the Independence Bowl or the Music City Bowl???

  13. Every body makes stupid mistakes… Just ask Terry Bowden or Tony Franklin sometimes…. they will tell you all about it.

  14. Ibleedorange.
    I dont know where Bama is going this year.
    But unlke Auburn they dont promise the BCS bowl and deliver the toilet bowl every year.
    I am 44 years old and I cant recall a year when Auburn wasnt hyped to win the SEC and (Maybe) the National Championship.
    All Auburn has is the Iron Bowl National Championship streak. And when that is over Auburn will fade like denom washed in bleach.

  15. ok, so I’m surprised nobody has mentioned how Sylvester Croom over at MSU kicked about 40 players off the team his first year, and sure, it has taken a while, but he has turned them back into a respectable program. If Nick Saban really cared about his team, then he wouldn’t hesitate to kick out the bad seeds like Croom did. And yes, Auburn has had players make mistakes, and get into trouble, but when was the last time an Auburn player got arrested for armed robbery or selling drugs? Alabama has a serious problem, and I hope they can get it fixed because some Auburn fans would like a good rivalry back.

  16. Aubrun players dont go to jell.
    Because aint nobody in lee county, gonna arrest them.
    We call it the orange and blue defense. We has specialized in it since that sosialiogee thing.
    Since CTT has been at myami he done figured out how to hide everythng.

  17. In case some of you didnt know it. I will be coming home to the states for a spell and then I will be going to Europe for a few weeks.
    During that time I may or may not be around to correct all the misinformed assumptions that come from the Auburn fans. Never fear. There are still plenty of Bammers around to educate you guys and get you out of the perpetual fog I like to call Auburnitis… And of course just like yours truly they too, are always right. See you guys.

  18. In case some of you didnt know it. I will be coming home to the states for a spell and then I will be going to Europe for a few weeks.
    During that time I may or may not be around to correct all the misinformed assumptions that come from the Auburn fans. Never fear. There are still plenty of Bammers around to educate you guys and get you out of the perpetual fog I like to call Auburnitis… And of course just like yours truly they too, are always right. See you guys. God Bless you all.

  19. I wasn’t aware Bama had to follow housing and dorm guidelines that the other 118 universities didn’t.

    I also didn’t realize that getting rid of sub-standard students could damage the academic standing of a school. If one assumes the undisciplined kids are also poor students (a fair assumption), then the APR and GSR would actually go UP, and better that school’s academic standing and reputation.

    And finally, do you think Alabama officials used the “inability to discipline players” as one of the reasons to fire Shula? I’m betting they did; and there is no shortage of fans, UA bloggers, and sports commentators who speculated that that was precisely the reason he was fired. Because it’s the coach’s responsibility to instill discipline… period.

  20. have a fun-filled trip, tmc… i know the barnies certainly won’t miss someone correcting them on their many delusional/misguided assumptions.

    actually, i think aufarm is to blame here. according to the alabama tech fan knowledge, tech is the best place to find the “good stuff”. so it’s possible a barnzoe provided johns with the stuff he’s dealing at the capstone.

    this is all assumptions right? if you guys are correct, then so am i!!

    Count this as my signature:

  21. Well, we don’t all have the positive public image radiating from our skin the way Tator Tot, Pat Incoherent/Drunken Loser Dye, Pinebox Tuberville, Robert The Probation Maker Baker, Clifton Sex Offender Robertson, Fast With Little Children Eddie Johnson, Illiterate Kenny Irons, Junior Retard Rosegreen, Carnell Free Class Credit Williams, Trey Three Times a Charm Blackmon, etc. etc.

  22. Jimmy Johns couldn’t live by himself in an “unsupervised” setting??? Right now, there’re thousands of 18-21 year old men living in “unsupervised” settings in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they do just fine.

    OH, I forgot- 24-16, 17-12, and this year we’re going for the MIDDLE FINGER!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! GO DOGS!

  23. Actually that is a highly supervised setting. Or haven’t you been in the military or known anyone in the military? That’s why people with criminal records are allowed out of prison or jail to serve in the Army.

    But thanks for playing…go troll your own message boards ass.

  24. Shouldn’t the blame really be on Jimmy Johns? He is a 21(?) year old adult, he knew that slinging rock is bad and he chose to do it anyway. Put the blame on him, it is embarrassing to blame anyone else.

    Also, to the NYC guy… why is it a bad thing to be API? Should VT and GT be embarrassed by their names? I like it and it says what we’re good at. Engineering… but Auburn sounds nicer.

  25. Jimmy, you should be ashamed of being an Alabama Tech fan. For crying out loud, that’s the most uncivilized backwoods college in America. Racist frat parties, weekend rodeos, jacked-up trucks, cow pastures, chicken houses, trailer parks, three bars, OPELIKA, and a football team who, ironically enough, only wins when their cross-state superior is at their worst.

    It’s great to be an Alabama Tech fan!

  26. This is absurd, just as when the dysfunctional Barnie family tried pointing fingers at ONE professor for the grade changing scandal. Or tried pointing fingers at everyone but Pat Dye for the Eric Ramsey scandal.

    Saban can’t control what these guys do off the field, and that’s that. Nobody’s to blame here but the person who committed the atrocity and the ones involved.

  27. Chris, i think you misunderstood my question. I guess we have different priorities when picking schools though. I don’t go to frat parties, I’ve never been to the rodeo, I don’t drive a truck, I don’t care about cows, I’ve never seen a chicken, I think trailers are a great alternative for lower income student housing, I can count 10 bars (more than a few other schools that I know of, Maryland being the biggest off the top of my head), I don’t see the problem with Opelika I rarely go there, and if you’ve been at your worst for the last 25 years then yes…

    Anyway my question was what is embarrassing about being named Alabama Polytech. I think it was a cool name and sums up what the University is best at. We have a top notch engineering program that is extremely progressive and ranks extremely well in national competitions (robotics, programming, web design, etc). Should Virginia Polytechnic and State University be embarrassed? Should Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute be embarrassed? I don’t really care about the answer. Don’t bother.

    Good luck with your criminals and Auburn is 13th in the Nation in win % since 1979 (Title IX restrictions, my barometer for the start of modern college football), Alabama is 18th. Seems to me like you’re a little mistaken on your assumption that Auburn is up when Alabama is down… Unless Alabama has been down for 30 years. Your choice.

  28. Phil Fulmer, Tommy Tuberville, Aubie the mascot, ULM, all of the bammer players that got arrested (10 is it?) The fires in California, The flood in the midwest, the heat in the south, the fact that my neighbors garden died all those are excuses for bammer. They can’t look in the mirror and put the blame where it is deserved hell no they must find someone else to blame.

  29. Such as yourself, for being the stereotypical “southern redneck aka API fan” who plays into that stereotype outsiders have directed toward this state. You ever think of that, redneck barnie?

  30. Joker- You are pathetic as is the team you cheer for. Who is blame for the pathetic team UAT has fielded the last decade? Any answers? Of course it is the “souther redneck aka API fan” Funny how I meet people from all over the world and ANYONE who knows anything about football at all.. laughs at the ignorace of bammer fans who always have to proclaim things that aren’t true or basically never happen and live off the bear.. you know all the things you do.. People laugh at you.. seriously.. laugh..

  31. Was JJ a known criminal when Shula recruited him to UA? I didnt think so. Rather, he was Mr. Football in Mississippi, so how was UA to know that they were taking a risk with JJ? Seriously, can anyone respond in a fair way to my point?

  32. They have been blaming losses on the NCAA
    with all that “you wouldnt have 6 in a row if we werent on PAROLE”

  33. Sure… Blame the NCAA for The Snowman Jimmy Johns and Hands Up Elder . The excuses fall from the Bammers lips like hock from a cows butt. The buck stops with the head coach no matter how you slice it.

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