Evangelical Elites like John Piper sound different in 2020 than 2012. Why is that?
Did I promote blasphemy when I voted for Mitt Romney?
Did I promote divorce when I supported Ronald Reagan?
Evangelical Elites have a new standard in their attempt to keep conservative voters at home: to vote for Donald Trump is to endorse his immorality, they claim. All of it.
John Piper is the latest preacher to show a lack of moral judgment. He opined against developing a moral calculus that one party might be better than another party.
He writes, “I will not develop some calculus to determine which path of destruction I will support. That is not my duty. My calling is to lead people to see Jesus Christ, trust his forgiveness for sins, treasure him above everything in this world, live in a way that shows his all-satisfying value, and help them make it to heaven with love and holiness. That calling is contradicted by supporting either pathway to cultural corruption and eternal ruin.”
Fascinating. Compare to what Piper wrote in 2012:
“Barring catastrophe, Obama or Romney will be president (yes, I know you may see it as a catastrophe even if either does get elected). The likelihood that both presidencies will be identical in the good and evil they do is infinitesimal. One will very probably do more good amid the bad, even if only a little.
“We can be part of that guess, or sit it out. God promises wisdom to those who seek it. So the likelihood that prayed-up, Bible-shaped Christians will tip the scales toward the incrementally worse regime is small. Therefore, the likelihood that we will waste our time voting seems small.”
So, when a candidate who believes blasphemy about Jesus was running in 2012—Christians like Piper decided that reducing evil—if only a little—was a legitimate way to vote.
In 2020, Piper thinks such a calculus is a bad idea.
Why?
Orange Man Bad!
Again, consider Piper’s indictment of leaders today: “It is naive to think that a man can be effectively pro-life and manifest consistently the character traits that lead to death — temporal and eternal.”
Let’s ask this question, but rephrased for 2012—can any candidate who blasphemes our Lord and Savior be effectively pro-life?
For a Christian, the heresy against God is a far greater evil than crimes against our fellow man. Yet, Big Eva ignored those sins.
And then, “When I consider the remote possibility that I might do any good by endorsing the devastation already evident in the two choices before me, I am loath to undermine my calling (and the church’s mission) to stand for Christ-exalting faith and hope and love.”
Can John Piper answer his 2012 challenge? Can he say there is no difference in evil between the regimes? And how could he claim that Trump—a wretched sinner—is actually worse than a blasphemer like Romney?
And let us explore the lesson of Ronald Reagan. Reagan was divorced. His opponent was Southern Baptist Sunday School teacher Jimmy Carter. Did we promote the culture-killing sin of divorce?
Were our parents wrong in 1980 to pick a Cold Warrior over the malaise of Jimmy Carter?
War with Gog & Magog
Christians must stop thinking that the best President is the best Christian. George W. Bush was one of the most sincere believers in recent history to be President.
How did that work out?
He was 1 for 2 in Supreme Court picks.
He was strong and decisive in responding to the 9-11 Terror Attacks.
He foolishly invaded Iraq and justified the decision by telling the French President that he was going to fight Gog and Magog.
With the thousands and thousands of Iraqi war dead in the balance, why do so many Christians today praise George W. Bush? He’s very popular and declared presidential by the Never Trump crowd of secular and religious conservatives.
I voted for Romney. I voted for George W. Bush. I voted for Donald Trump. I’ll do so again this year. I’ll do so to prevent increased persecution against Christians (Democrats pledge policies that will harm the church) and to fight abortion and to establish the rule of law.
This election will determine if we still are America. It is that important.
Piper’s thinking was right in 2012. He’s seriously wrong today.
37 thoughts on “John Piper’s Never Trump Political Nonsense”
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This is baffling and disturbing.
Unless Jesus Christ Himself is running for office, every election will be a “lesser of evils” scenario.
Surely those like Piper and Platt wrestle with Trump’s persona. I get that. I wrestled with it in 2016 before ultimately voting for him. But their critique of him seems to be very surface level. Do they not analyze policy positions? In Trump’s case – and in Biden’s too for that matter, do they not look at actual results?
Abortion is a big deal for my family and it would take a lot for us to vote for a pro-choice candidate. But even if a person wants to gloss over this issue, there are many others where Christians and other moral people should have a very difficult time voting for any Democrat / Socialist.
And on a personal level, can John Piper not see the destruction of property and lives in his own city which has been endorsed by Biden and the Democrats?
Piper, like my pastor, oversimplified the issues to give a neat theological statement. Serious facts are ignored. I was disappointed.
What if you found out that abortion rates are lower now than they were before abortion was legalised? What if you found out that the US has half the rates of abortion compared to the rest of the world that largely criminalises abortion?
I would hope that this would show you that legalising abortion at worst has had a neutral effect on abortion rates and at best has actually had a role in reducing it This is because no longer are women going into back alleys, they are now able to access the counselling that they need to show them that there are alternatives. It is clear that criminalising has no effect on reducing it.
At some point we have to decide whether we want to win a symbolic culture war or if we actually want to win the spiritual one that will actually reduce abortion.
If you’re ultimately voting for a pro life candidate just because you want to reduce abortion, then these are facts you should consider seriously. Even after winning the culture war, the spiritual war still remains to be fought. In fact, the alliance with Trump has made it even more difficult to win the more important spiritual war.
Re: destruction of property. This is another example of the evil of Trump. Biden has said repeatedly that he does not support violence and the looting should stop. Not only that, the data shows that only a very small minority of the protests involve violence. Yet Trump keeps harping on it. Not because it is the truth but because it helps to convince his supporters that Biden of the narrative that helps him win. That is, that Biden and the democrats are supporting violence.
The numbers of abortions are not what’s important, as one is too many. To sanction the murder of children is an abomination. God has made abundantly clear His wrath on those who harm children and He never uses statistics.
For those of us who get our news from other than Trump, it was clear from the beginning that the protests originated with the Communists. They were apparently proud of the destruction and violence, since they kept at it.
Your social justice religion is, as always, in support of the destruction of our country.
Farewell John Piper…
This is not surprising. Piper’s red flags have been there all along, and his son was/is very “emergent.” The Woke Church is the next step (after the EC) in the decline of the church.
Too many preachers are spouting a “SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE” for a secular world. They also are ignoring that God gave us a brain to make wise decisions . We do not need their advice.
Piper seems to wrestle with questions fit for Jr. High students. I’ve long been a huge consumer of his messages, books, speaking engagements and have had the real pleasure of personal, spiritual growth through his ministry. All of that will continue.
It is difficult to reconcile his inability to sort through a “lesser of two evils” decision tree. He has every right to his opinion and expression of it but has lessened his future impact, in my opinion.
I’m not impressed with the current state of those in leadership of a wing of the evangelical community who are quick to condemn the evils of social injustice but ignore or downplay the very systems which have been built and people exploited by the far left. It’s as though there is no “cause and effect” which can be considered.
No worries, God remains the sovereign King and Jesus’ reign is certain.
Most theologians understand politics about as well as celebrities.
I used to read Piper for spiritual answers and bible interpretation and even back awhile I see him more and more in a bubble all by himself. No thought to other commentators but kind of removed from the “whole” of Scripture knowledge. A love covers it all argument. THIS is just my personal point of view. But I see a real lack of using the brain that God gave us.
I’ve never understood the Piper fascination. He’s always struck me as the “Christian” version of the stereotypical “elite leftist.” He makes being a Christian sound like a chore of analytical, joyless, drudgery. God didn’t make His salvation plan for us complicated and unattainable. And His word, the Bible, isn’t only accessible to those who have a seminary degree. For Piper to say, “don’t participate in what God established“ – govt/voting – is absurd and I’m glad many are seeing it that way.
“He makes being a Christian sound like a chore of analytical, joyless, drudgery.”
That really makes me question if you’ve ever read or heard anything of Piper. What he is most known for is “Christian hedonism”, the view that all Christians should pursue their maximum joy, which is ultimately found in God. He is known for his joyous, accessible preaching more than anything else.
This piece by Piper has the pearl clutching tone of a debutante confronting the guy who cleans your septic tank. “You expected maybe a guy in a tux, with a Poli Sci degree from Stanford?” Trump was a businessman, not just that but a real estate developer…in NYC. You can’t pussyfoot around in that arena. Trump is a fighter, sometimes a brawler and he has been assaulted relentlessly since before he took office (Julius Caesar mockup of his assassination, Women’s March, effort to turn Electors against him), in office (Hollywood, media, academia, Dem pols and revolutionaries). He has fought back and does not back down. THAT is why supporters are behind him. He will truly fight for them. Now Piper’s couch fainting sensibilities were not in view when the truly self-absorbed Obama was in office, busily dividing our nation, impaling Christianity, betraying Israel. celebrating gay marriage, supporting abortion on demand, spying on opponents — but then, Piper felt comfortable likely because Obama spoke so nicely and maintained a veneer or respectability. Piper is a sell out, as are so many in evangelicalism. The brutal bottom line: Piper’s Greek word indictment is weak tea and hypocritical; and it leads, among other things, to one dreadful outcome: millions of dead babies.
Excellent comment! A couple of years ago I unsubscribed from Piper’s newsletter (or whatever it was) because something just rubbed me the wrong way. Couldn’t exactly put my finger on it but I’ve learned to trust my God-given instincts. What’s funny, is I do remember feeling that he came across as superior.
Grateful for Piper for allowing the Holy Spirit to lead him. I don’t believe there are many true Christians in America today. As Keith Green stated, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian anymore than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger’. I think most ‘Christians’ are simply nationalists. Equating pride of country and a specific political party as their religion of choice.
Sad how many people can back an evil man like Trump. I see how easy it will be for the anti-Christ to deceive all these lukewarm believers. Truly we HAVE to be living in the end times.
God calls us to do good. Letting Biden win would be evil. People like you with your virtue signaling are the problem. And if you can’t figure out that duty then you don’t have a biblical worldview. That speaks volumes about you.
Guys like Piper who cannot seem to be able to discern the line between being born an American citizen with being a citizen of the Kingdom frustrate me.
Hey, John, quit the posturing. Go into the booth and pull the lever however you see fit. We don’t care.
Piper, like my pastor, oversimplified the issues to give a neat theological statement. Serious facts are ignored. I was disappointed.
Piper is at best naive and ignorant or at worst deceived and a heretic. The contrast between the two stated platforms of the political parties could not be more clear.
Here is a part of DNC 2020 platform:
“Securing Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice
Democrats are committed to protecting and advancing reproductive health, rights, and justice. We believe unequivocally, like the majority of Americans, that every woman should be able to access high-quality reproductive health care services, including safe and legal abortion. We will repeal the Title X domestic gag rule and restore federal funding for Planned Parenthood, which provides vital preventive and reproductive health care for millions of people, especially low-income people, and people of color, and LGBTQ+ people, including in underserved areas.
Democrats oppose and will fight to overturn federal and state laws that create barriers to reproductive health and rights. We will repeal the Hyde Amendment, and protect and codify the right to reproductive freedom. We condemn acts of violence, harassment, and intimidation of reproductive health providers, patients, and staff. We will address the discrimination and barriers that inhibit meaningful access to reproductive health care services, including those based on gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, income, disability, geography, and other factors. Democrats oppose restrictions on medication abortion care that are inconsistent with the most recent medical and scientific evidence and that do not protect public health.
We recognize that quality, affordable comprehensive health care; medically accurate, LGBTQ+ inclusive, age-appropriate sex education; and the full range of family planning services are all essential to ensuring that people can decide if, when, and how to start a family. “
Piper needs leave his pulpit and re-evaluate his erroneous conclusions
Piper seems more concerned with Trump’s boisterous rhetoric than with Trump’s actions. He is criticizing Trump’s character while giving Biden a pass. Piper needs to view Donald Trump through the lens of the God of the Bible who valued action over rhetoric. The Hebrew mindset has always been–it’s not what you say or promise or swear to, but what you do. Your actions reveal your heart.
Using this as a measurement for both Trump and Biden, I would say that Trump easily passes the test for receiving my vote and the vote of any American. Trump kept most of his promises including moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Israel. Trump has been the best friend that Israel has ever had (from a U.S. President), and as God told Abraham, “Those who bless you (Israel), I will bless.” Perhaps we have been spared the wrath of God’s judgment because we currently have a president who is truly a friend of Israel, and has done more to seek peace in the Middle East than any past president.
Trump is also the MOST pro-life president we’ve ever had, even though this is no big deal for Piper. Trump has also done more for blacks and Latinos, providing them with more jobs and a higher income than any past president.
I could go on and on listing Trump’s accomplishments. But here’s the thing. He’s boastful, and always touting his accomplishments because the MEDIA NEVER mentions any of his accomplishments. All he is faced with every day is an echo chamber of lies and misinformation. The MSM has yet to report on Trump’s historic peace agreements with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Sudan. This again is a president seeking to secure peace for Israel and the Middle East.
Sorry John Piper that you are such an elitist and hung up on words and tweets rather than someone who is a doer and keeps his promises.
Amen!
I have never been a Piper fan since I do not hold to reformed theology. His statements regarding this election are simply justifications for not voting for Trump simply because he does not like him, period.
What happened to John Piper?
What happened to John Piper?
I was extremely disappointed to hear John Piper say the things he has. This is an extremely important election for religious freedom and it is irresponsible of him to say what he has. Also as a Pastor what about let him without sin cast the first stone. Trump may not be perfect but he is fighting for religious freedom, against abortion, standing with Israel…shame on him for his irresponsible timing and opinion. I have lost major respect for him. This is not the time to be standing against what God clearly states in his word. We vote principles not a man. Regardless perfect or not at least Trump is fighting for things that God’s word demands we stand for above all else. He’s helping minority’s in ways no other president has. Very Disappointed in Piper’s stance.
If Piper has a problem with Trump , he better talk to God about some of his choices . God used some scoundrels at times . Yet he accomplished his ultimate goals. God will use whom ever will get the job done he wants done and I think Trump is Gods man for this time in history .
On October 22, 2020, John Piper published an article on his website desiringgod.org entitled Policies, Persons, and Paths to Ruin: Pondering the implications of the 2020 election. In this article, Pastor Piper attempts to explain why he remains baffled “that so many Christian consider the sins of unrepentant sexual immorality (porneia), unrepentant boastfulness (alazoneia), unrepentant vulgarity (aischrologia), unrepentant factiousness (dichostasiai), and the like, to be only toxic for our nation, while plicies that endorse baby-killing, sex-switching, freedom-limiting, and socialistic overreach are viewed as deadly.”
In the article Pastor Piper proceeds to cast judgment on Donald Trump as being guilty of all of the things stated above, and for that reason, he declares that he will not vote for Donald Trump. In fact, he judges both presidential candidates as falling below his moral standards and therefore declares that he will not vote for either candidate.
As a disclaimer, Pastor Piper states at the beginning as follows: “Nothing I say here is intended to dictate how anyone else should vote, but rather to point to a perspective that seems to be neglected. Yes, this perspective sways my vote. But you need not be sinning if you weigh matters differently.”
Although this disclaimer is much appreciated, it has to be pointed out that if this was just a personal opinion of Pastor Piper and he did not intend to sway others to refuse to vote, he would have just refrained from voting and would not have published his article. The mere fact that he has published this article shows that in spite of his disclaimer, he intends to sway voters.
Having laid this groundwork, I first want to focus on Pastor Piper’s condemnation of Donald Trump. I find this very troubling. Unless he knows President Trump personally, I don’t see by what right he casts such judgment. How does Pastor Piper know that Donald Trump is unrepentant? I have been watching President Trump for several years and want to discuss Pastor Piper’s judgments based upon what I have observed.
First, he condemns President Trump for sexual immorality. Pastor Piper must be condemning him for his past relationships with women and ignores that he is married to one woman and has been for many years. The only sexually immoral relationships of which I am aware are from political attacks reported by the main stream media of which President Trump has denied. Unless Pastor Piper has a crystal ball or is on the inside of Donald Trump’s life, he has no justification for his judgments. This is an issue between Mr. Trump and God.
Second, he condemns President Trump for being boastful. To understand this sin, we have to compare boastfulness with humility and we have to understand the real difference. Unless Pastor Piper has inside information into Mr. Trump’s inner circle, he again only knows what is reported by media. If Pastor Piper is referring to Mr. Trump’s constant statements that no one else could have accomplished what he has accomplished, that is not definitive on what is meant by boastfulness. In other words, it is possible that it is not mere bragging but is in fact, true. It is possible that only someone with the confidence and grit of Mr. Trump is strong enough to fight the beast (currently referred to as the Deep State) as will be discussed below.
God obviously has not called Pastor Piper to defend righteousness among the evil leaders of the world as president and I can assure you, although he is probably and awesome Pastor, he is not a warrior and is not competent enough to fight the Deep State.
In my opinion, even though Pastor Piper is a very accomplished theologian and appears to have served the Lord faithfully for many years, he has failed to understand the enemy at his doorstep and has failed to fully grasp the mind and will of God at this time in earth’s history. He apparently does not understand just how close we were to a one world government had Hillary Clinton won the last election and he does not understand just how much closer will be to a one world government if Joe Biden wins the presidency this election.
The problem with the one world government is that it is being put together by ungodly world leaders who are hostile to Christianity and hostile to human rights. And, it is inherently Anti-Christ. We only need to look to the Revelation of Jesus Christ to understand that two witnesses have existed in this world since the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ: to wit, the Word of God and the true Church. These witnesses take the Gospel to all generations and to all nations. Why two witnesses? Because it is the legal minimum requirement to establish a fact.
We know from Revelation that these two witnesses are slain by the beast, which has been working through the same time period to defeat the gospel and the two witnesses. However, these witnesses raise from the dead in three days. We can gather from this that the one world government that is currently forming will attempt to kill the Word and the Church. Ultimately, they will succeed when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled at which time the Day of the Lord has arrived.
Open your spiritual eyes Pastor Piper and recognize the war before you. This has nothing to do with boastfulness. This has everything to do with the Word and the Church resisting the rise of this beast.
Finally, on the issue of boastfulness, let’s look at Mr. Trump’s motives and heart. First, he declares he is Christian and was raised Presbyterian. He has recently claimed that he is now a non-denominational Christian. The Bible is clear in Romans that the only requirement for salvation is to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. I have to give Mr. Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one. God will judge his true heart.
Mr. Trump has recognized the evil in this world and has responded to a call to fight it. It is a vicious beast that he battles. Only a person of confidence could withstand the attacks he has endured and overcome during the last four years. He does not take a salary, he has handcuffed his organizations financially because of his role as president. He is fighting to wrestle power away from the global elites and to give it back to the people as set up in our constitution.
He has defeated a false Russian collusion narrative, he has defeated a false impeachment, he has endured every slander, name calling and unsubstantiated personal attacks and has defeated them all. That he has been called and ordained for this battle at this time in history is apparent.
His first four years has been to clear out the swamp creatures in our government, to disrupt the one world government ambitions of the world leaders, and to expose the wiles of the devil in our government. Who would ever have thought it was possible that our Constitution could be overthrown and that first amendment free speech would be censored by the media elites? Well, that is exactly what has just played out before our eyes.
The next four years are needed to restore righteousness in our government by removing the corrupt members of our government, who belong to both political parties, to restore the durability of our Constitution and to protect the freedoms of our citizens. To do so, we need to allow this current conservative Supreme Court to set the proper standards to protect our Constitution and the freedoms it grants to the people for the next generations.
The third judgment cast by Pastor Piper is his accusation that Mr. Trump is vulgar. The only vulgarity I have seen out of President Trump is a few cuss words. If that is enough to disqualify a president of the United States, then no one can serve. Otherwise, Pastor Piper has only the media reports and the accusations of political opponents to justify vulgarity.
The fourth judgment cast by Pastor Piper is his accusation that Mr. Trump is factious. Is not the entire Gospel message factious to the majority opinion of the world? How can we fight the good fight of faith without being factious? That is exactly why President Trump was elected in the first place. We had reached a point where there was not much difference between the policies of the Democrats and the Republicans. I could never understand why the only difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party is how fast citizen’s rights were diluted and the political elites were empowered. I now understand it to be what is called the Deep State, but spiritually I understand it as the Beast and the Anti-Christ.
Finally, I want to point out two things. In Isaiah 45, God prophesied that King Cyrus was appointed (anointed) by God to bring the Jews back to Jerusalem. King Cyrus was not even born at that time. Furthermore, he was not a Jew and did not know God. However, God anointed him to bring the Jews back home. King Cyrus was a brutal king that conquered many nations and was used by God to render judgment on other nations. He was probably sexually immoral, arrogant, vulgar and factious. However, he was God’s anointed one.
Second, we only have to look at King David, the man after God’s own heart, to debunk the judgment cast by Pastor Piper. King David was the man after God’s own heart and was key to the lineage of Jesus Christ. However, he was an adulterer, a murderer, and a warrior/conqueror. And although he carried out the Will of God in his numerous conquests, he was denied the right to build the Temple because of the blood on his hands.
If John Piper was present in King David’s time and King David’s rule was dependent upon an election, Pastor Piper would be caught sleeping and refusing to vote. I would recommend that Pastor Piper do a little more biblical research and seek the true mind of God and His will.
Excellent summary. Everything Piper accuses Trump of being, Biden and Company are worse.
That was such a good read, thank you! You summarized everything I believe but would not be able to express so eloquently. This, though, that Piper said ,”But you need not be sinning if you weigh matters differently.” Well, wow, thanks a lot, good to know that. LOL!
I’m no longer willing to take Piper seriously and don’t think anyone else should either.
My heart is broken! Piper was once a great leader for our reformed faith. He was an influential proclaimer of the gospel, but the Lord will now hold him accountable for the damage to His church. His credibility among true people of God is dead.
My heart is broken! I am sad to sad that Piper has embraced the Satanic platform of Joe Biden. He was once a leader of the reformed faith, but the Apostle Paul warned that there would be clever false prophets. I pray for his reflection and repentance because he will be held accountable for his influence.
If Piper has a problem with Trump , he should talk to God about Gods choices for leadership . God used some scoundrels to accomplish his goals . I believe God has Trump right where he want’s him !
If you lived in Communist China but miraculously had the chance, as a Christian, to vote for Xi or Trump, which one would you vote for?
Piper : Well, well I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Donald Trump and I guess I couldn’t vote for the malevolent, church-persecuting Xi either so I guess I wouldn’t vote.
So you’re saying you would not participate in the opportunity to vote for somebody who would remove persecution against the church and protect it?
Piper: well I…I…I couldn’t because it would be Donald Trump.
You’re no more than a common dumb ass (Bible ass, of course) but as a Christian and worse, a theologian and Bible teacher, a disgrace. A novice has more sense than you. You have developed an arrogance complex that not only has robbed you of any theological Moorings (not that your moorings were very good to begin with) and theological sense but definitely common sense.
Piper was either wrong in 2012 or wrong in 2020 . A rather strange conundrum he presents . I think he sounds a bit over spiritual regarding the choice of a president . We’re not choosing a pastor .