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I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,that both thou and thy seed may live: Deutoronomy 30:19
Come unto me, all that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.
Matthew 11:28-30
There isnt any need to further debate Joey. All we can do is pray for him. I for one will not engage with him, unless he grows up a lot.
intheknow72 don’t you think that Muslims conversions have changed their lives as well? or Buddhists? Or Hindus?
you can’t deal with the logic i just layed out for you. if god is all powerful and the author of everything then evil is part of his creation. otherwise god is not in complete control. he does not encompass everything. he is not infinite. there are forces that operate independently of his domain and either he allows this or is incapable of stopping it. now if this is what your claiming fine. but that would be against your dogma wouldn’t it? in order for your version of “god” to exist he must be all-powerful, all-knowing, infallible. but the reality we experience every day renders this version impossible. either god created evil and allows or even endorses it, or he has no power over it. which would mean he’s not all powerful wouldn’t it?
and any time someone of any faith speaks about “my experience” as if that’s solid ground to stand on in a debate has run out of straws to grasp.
ballpark thanks for not engaging me. it’s nice of you to accept that one person just beat you and all of your christian fuckbuddies like three-legged mules.
oh and crimson hammah your damnation fetish is really disturbing. i imagine your basement must resemble that of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. keep me out of your sicko fantasies ya troll!
Just because General Motors creates an automobile that when used inappropriately causes death doesn’t mean GM is morally responsible for the misuse of a car. It is a nice rhetorical trick to attempt to fault God when his creations misuse free choice. GM knows people will die in car accidents, but that doesn’t mean GM should stop making cars.
As to the question if God allows evil, of course orthodox Christians have always said he allowed evil because without the possibility to choose wrong then there would be no choice. Orthodox Christians also usually claim that the consequences of evil are important to moral creatures. Without consequences (good and bad), a choice has no real meaning.
Cap. Your wasting your breath. Joey will have to make his own mind up, and unfortunately, no one can give the kid any advice. The ball is in his court.
GOD DOES USE EVIL TO CORRECT OTHERS …GOOD STRATEGY BY GOD
DAMNATION IS ANY SECOND NOW OR AT MOST RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER…I AM A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST WHO SPOKE ON HELL MORE THAN HEAVEN – LOOK IT UP.
U DO BELIEVE IN GOD – U JUST REFUSE TO BOW DOWN TO ANOTHER MASTER OTHER THAN YOURSELF – U R LYING AND TRYING TO DELUDE YOURSELF INTO THAT BELIEF..U R A REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE
AND U NEED TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE STENCH OF BURNING FLESH
thanks for finally weighing in capstone. i didn’t try to emply a “rhetorical trick.” i stated something that should be apparent to any thinking person. your silly analogy about GM would be a nice example of a rhetorical trick however.
now i want you and whoever else is reading this to think about it. what christians (as least the fundamentalists) claim is that god is absolutely all-powerful, all-knowing, and somehow all-good. somehow you ignore the obvious paradox that if a being is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent and exists within a universe were evil and suffering are also present then that evil is part of this so called god who encompasses all things. according to your world view god is all encompassing entity that pervades and surrounds EVERYTHING. he created EVERYTHING. according to you who set the laws of the universe in motion. to be short he wove the fabric of reality.
so you can’t justifiably make the claim that such a being created everything -including the non-material, i.e. thought, concepts, rules, principles – and yet is exempt from being held to account for misery and suffering. i repeat what i said before. if god exists as you say he does he created THE VERY CONCEPT OF EVIL.
you cannot get all of the credit without taking some of the blame.
also capstone back to your GM analogy. can customers of General Motors not actually contact the manufacturer? i mean physically, actually confront them over issues like faulty design, repair, etc? there’s no invisible car industry out there we can’t see who the mechanics or dealers ask us to blindly trust and believe in whenever we have car problems. “just take their word for it. you might not understand but GM knows what’s best. and it’s there, even though you can’t see it.” so there you go. turn your analogy around and look at it from another angle.
oh and by the way. doesn’t the header for this site have the tagline “News and Commentary about Alabama Athletics”? perhaps it should read “News and Commentary about Alabama Athletics and Shameless Promotion of Evangelical Propagandists” i think that might be more accurate.
you know i really enjoyed your site when it actually concerned things related to Alabama Football. but what in the hell does Focus on the Family have to do with it?
This thread was started about the NCAA (you know the “god” of college football”, and how they are unfairly treading on players , and the ones endorsing (commercials) the game. If you cant connect the dots , then you are beyond ignorant. YOU were the one that brought the substance of this thread into play. Then , you blame Cap. Here is an idea. Go somewhere else if you dont like it. Its his blog, dont like it , tough crap.
Oh , yeah….Im not talking to you. Nevermind.
You clain that Christians are the hypocrites, when really its you.
CAN I GET A HALLALUUUUUJIAAAA !?!?!??!?!
uh no.
What about an AMEN !!!!!
It wouldnt kill you Joey. You might even find it liberating.
What exactly do you hate about Christianity ? The fact that it teaches loving people . Mabe its the whole “putting others first” you dispise.
Wait, I know……………….Its the living with purpose, and striving for rightiousness” thing.
You confuse Gods people , with God .
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH EVIL – EVIL SEPARATES THE GOOD FROM THE EVIL
JEALOUSY , JOEY IS MAD BECAUSE JESUS IS GOD AND HE AIN’T….JESUS IS LORD AND MASTER OVER ALL AND HE AIN’T…..JEALOUSY
Joey, what exactly do you believe in ? I know that you favor one thing or another. Im guessing evolution. Am I right in assuming that ? N one believes in nothing. You have to lean toward some belief as to how the Universe happened.
i believe that no human being knows the answer. i’m more in line with the eastern philosophies. i like the eastern proverb that says “it is better to travel than to arrive.” but i am not religious and i believe in no deities that men claim to have existed throughout history. so in other words. i know what i DON’T believe.
having said that i think there is a bit of truth and wisdom in all of the religions and philosophies and that it’s perfectly fine to study their texts as long as you acknowledge that they were man made.
one thing i can say without doubt that i believe in is that the tradition of tying oneself down to this or that dogma has damaged and held humanity back for centuries.
and yes i do believe in evolution. but even some christians believe in that.
EVEN YOUR ANCESTORS WERE NOT MONKEYS
IF U DO NOT SERVE JESUS – U R SERVING SATAN WHETHER U KNOW IT OR NOT…
no way is 2 + 2 not 4 – no way am i wrong.and thx for the video putting in a claim to throw his butt in the lake of fire too. i am up to six.
how many times do you imagine throwing men’s “butts in the lake of fire” crimson? i bet not as many as the amount of leather studded paddles and ball gags you own.
i imagine them with clothes on and if that ain’t the case i will reneg on my committment,,,,and no s and m stuff ever
So, why the disdain for only Chrisianity ? It seems your issues are particular to only my religion and my God….
Tell me exactly what you think is “wrong” with it.
ballplay you haven’t been paying attention. early on i said that the NCAA shouldn’t be a platform for ANY religious group (or political group for that matter) if i didn’t make it clear enough that i disdain any belief system based purely on faith alone then consider this a correction of that. islam, judaism and christianity are in the same boat with the Greek and Roman mythology.
i hold a special distate for your religion because as i said before i was a victim of it. i was conditioned to believe it before my mind had developed the rational defense mechanism needed to counterbalance it’s assertions. this is much like islamic radicals recruiting young men who have no life experience and no education to weigh against what their being taught.
now you can certainly claim that modern christianity is less dangerous that fundamentalist islam but only in the physical and only because it has refined itself over the years and trimmed off the more extreme ideas that were put forth supposedly by god himself. i.e. stoning children who disobey their parents, commands to commit genocide, murdering homosexuals, animal sacrifice, etc.
so what i say is why not scrap the rest of the ridiculous and unreasonable elements of christianity altogether? by this i mean asking people to believe in the supernatural when there is no evidence for it. as the author Sam Harris puts it, this type of behavior is not accepted anywhere else in society. you wouldn’t go to a doctor with kidney stones and accept him telling you that you were infected with an unclean spirit and that an excorcism was in order. you’d look at him like he was out of his mind. if your tv messed up you wouldn’t trust the repairman who blaimed it on the tv god. you put your trust in science and reason in ever other element of your life. why argue with it on this issue? true, science can’t explain everything, but it’s much more intellectualy honest and, i believe more healthy, to pursue knowledge empirically and accept the things we can’t understand as mysteries yet to be solved instead of coming up with superstitious excuses for them.
people don’t need a deity to believe in in order to be civil and kind to each other. i think if you look around the world today this is plain to see.
Still not real sure on how you were “victimized” by Chrisitianity. How so ? Like I said, the whole “right from wrong” thing must really strike your nerve.
I think I might have you figured out. Im guessing your 20-27 years of age. Probably a college student , or grad. You are just now getting some freedoms youve never gotten before and now you think your all grown up. I am also guessing you have no children, and prabably own a dog or cat that you probably treat like a child. You spend way too much time looking at “intellects” on the web that do not know there butt from a hole in the ground , and treat everything they say as the gospel(pun intended).
The fact of the matter is that the older you get, the wiser you will get. Well, maybe. …. Anyway, when you mature , you will see that everything is not exactly the way you think it is. In fact, its usually the opposite.
To compare Christianity to Greek mythology, is downright brick wall retarded. The Bible has been proven (by atheist scholars might I add) to be factually and historically correct.
If you choose not to believe , then thats your choice. But to deny the facts like those above , well , thats just dumb.
religion is of the devil …personal relationship with Jesus Christ and His word is the way truth and life…
ballplay if you believe the bible to be historically accurate, then there’s no reason to continue talking to you. if it had been proven accurate by these so-called atheist scholars then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. this brings me to another gripe about your supposed god. why would he leave “the good news” so clouded with doubt? if he wants all to come to him then the historicity of the gospels or the bible as a whole would not even come into question. a god who could do anything could eliminate the possibility of his story being discredited. and it HAS been discredited to a large degree. one of the key elements in the story of the birth of christ has been proven to be made out of whole cloth. there never was a Roman census that required Joseph and Mary to be in Bethlehem during the time of the winter solstice. Christopher Hitchens, a vehement anti-theist (there’s a difference between an antitheist and an athiest) makes a beautiful argument that this fact could actually support the case for there being a man called Jesus of Nazareth because as Hitchens argues, if he is to be of the line of David why not just have him born in Jerusalem? Why the need to invent this imaginary census to explain his humble origin in Bethlehem and then Nazareth? yeah the bible’s been proven historically accurate ballpark. they even found the actual burning bush that Moses spoke to. and all those zombies from the crucifixion have been rounded up and sent to a military/scientific research facility. DUM DUM DUM!
this had gotten to a point reaching civility but i guess that must’ve rubbed your nerves raw somehow. regardless get your “facts” straight. actually you there weren’t any facts for me to ignore in your last post. go back and read it. so next time introduce some facts and don’t worry about how old i am and whether i have kids or not. find some other straws to grasp. you’re not going to get to me by playing on my emotions. my emotions don’t dictate my belief system or lack thereof.
crimson you can’t have personal relationships with imaginary friends ya nitwit.
yes and u can have a relationship with the creator of the universe if invited..and with the Heavenly Father …if you don’t – then you would be a fatherless bastard
and yes joey there will be a time of peace no evil…that is after the 7000 yrs of earth ….the purpose of the 7000 yrs of earth is to weeed out the unworthy by their own choices
if u got the balls – call out to the true god of the universe and command he show u truth….that is your homework assignment – an hour a day for the next 3 months and report back in if u r a lover of truth
no way out of the new world order since u r adamant about going to hell – u should work for the new world order illuminati fema etc
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
-Epicurus
THE WORLD IS A TRIAL OF A 1000 YRS TO SEE WHO CHOOSES GOOD AND NOT EVIL ….U HAVE TO PROVE YOURSELF WORTHY TO MAKE IT TO THE WORLD WITHOUT EVIL….GOD IS BEING TRUE TO HIMSELF = PERFECT …PUNISHMENT ONLY AFTER A VESSEL HAS DONE EVIL WITH A FREE CHOICE
Its about free will Joey. God isnt going to MAKE anyone choose Him. He wants a relationship with someone because they acknowledge and love Him.
I must have been pretty close about you. A suggestion,,,,Spend less time researching atheists on the web. ITs not very educational.
Oh, and as far as the census goes. That is historically proven as well. This was prophecied in Daniel too. As time went on , the need for empires to tax their peoples became a need ( prophecied by the statue vision in Daniel) This was one the first censuses of the Roman Empire. Hence the need for all the people to return to their city of birth where there records were kept. Joseph was born in Bethlehem , therefore , the need for him to return there. Bethlehem was the prophecied birthplace of Jesus.
Im not real sure why I keep going back and forth with you, but there must be a reason. Soon this thread will go into the archives. So, if ut does, its been interesting debatiing you. Hope you see the truth soon.
no such thing as atheist-it is a big scam and dawkins is laughing all the way to the bank…ive never met ur mother therefore ur mother does not exist u were only raised to believe u had a mother
I’m very suspiscious, and often offended, by people who wear their religions on their sleeves.
Too many sex scandals involving televangelists, and so-called conservative politicans literally caught with their pants down, have jaded me.
I’m equally offended, and often enraged by wild-eyed super-liberal people or groups who want to discard every social value or tradition they believe threatens their particular, and narrow minded obsessions. “No more Nativity scenes on public property at Christmas!” and so on.
Former Florida Gator quarterback Tim Tebow has become involved in a controversy because of his endorsement of a group called Focus on the Family. The Super Bowl ad featuring Tebow and his mom set of a paranoid volley of attacks by anti-abortionist radicals before it even aired. When it did air, it was a very dignified and unintrusive offering, simply asking folks to visit the website of Focus on the Family.
Tebow may have damaged his ability to secure commercial endorsements if he is seen as too controversial. However, in the long run, I believe he’ll be better off. And if he chooses to use his celebrity status to advocate Christian ideals, more power to him.
Tebow is a refreshing presence at a time when the most famous athlete of the past decade is wrapped up in a sex scandal. And when many other high-profile athletes are making news for unlawfull gun possession charges and a long list of other dirty laundry.
I can’t think of too many athletes, in their prime, who have taken on a seriously divisive social or poltical cause. One person comes to mind more than any other.
Muhamad Ali, lost his heavy-weight title in the late 1960s because of his anti-Vietnam stance. Ali was also embroiled in racial and religious conflicts of his time. Aside from Ali, I can’t think of too many other athletes who used their bully pulpit of celebrity to advocate serious political or social views. Former Cleveland Browns great Jim Brown, perhaps fit the mold, but his activisim seemed to come more after his playing days. Maybe I’m not old enough to remember more, and maybe times have just changed.
I also remember that Joe Namath had a run-in with the NFL over his involvment in a nightclub in New York City called Batchelor’s Three. Joe tearfully retired from the NFL after being asked to give up his interest. He stood up for his rights to pursue outside business interests I guess. But that was all straightened out rather quickly.
The extent of Tebow’s advocacy on anything, is hardly comparable at this time to somebody like Ali. It’s certainly different from the Namath situation. And I haven’t heard Tebow’s response to criticism of Focus on the Family. He seems to be “focusing” more on improving his passing skills to suit the NFL.
I support and admire Tebow for using his platform to promote something he believes in; The sanctity of life and the importance of the family, from what I gather. It will be interesting to see how far he would be willing to go in continuing that advocacy or if he will tone it down or drop it altogether.
Other athletes like Curt Warner for instance, openly share their Christian views. Not many/or any, I’m aware of delve into the really contentious political/social issues.
I wonder if it is a coincidence that Tebow is facing serious scrutiny of his athletic ability, right now, at this time?
Cany anybody really question the credentials of someone who won a Heisman trophy, contended for three Heismans, and passed for more than 400 yards in a BCS bowl game two months ago?
TAKE YOUR OFFENDEDNESS AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR AZZ…
GETTING OFFENDED IS FOR FAGGOTS
HEY FOOL – IT IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AND YOU – CHRISTIANS CALLED OR SO-CALLED HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU
Joey likes to hear himself talk, and I do too. He has no joy, no peace and no reason for living, and I do. I feel better about myself already. Thanks Joey!
FOR BALANCE…I WILL TAKE PRIDE IN HAVING THE MOST FOOLS TO THROW INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE ON JUDGEMENT DAY BUT ALSO WINNING THE MOST SOULS TO JESUS AS WELL
Hammah, for the love man, shut the heck up. Your not helping anything. You are helping to make the case for people like Joey.
As far as the whole televangelist, Swaggert, Hinn, Baker, etc deals go. The Bible plainly tells us of false prophets, how to spot them, and to be on guard for them. This should catch no one unaware. Especially not Christians.
As far as Tebow goes, Hunter, if you or anyone else puts faith into Tim Tebow, you WILL ger let down. Tebow will screw up, just like everyone else. The thing that we have to understand is that he is human, and by the grace of God , he will be restored just as we are.
I can promise you Tim T. is facing scrutiny that wouldnt otherwise be at his doorstep if he were not trying his best to further the cause of Christ. The Bible plainly tells us that will happen. That we will suffer because He suffered. That he will endure trials as Jesus did.
As far as Christians wearing their religion on their sleeves, if your a true follower of Jesus, you couldnt hide it if you had to. It will show. And it SHOULD show in EVERYTHING you do. Its who you ARE…Not just what you say.
JOE NAMATH AGREED TO GIVE UP HIS INTEREST IN THE Biii AND RIGHTFULLY SO – KNOWN MAFIA HAD MADE THAT THEIR HANGOUT
SAINTS WIN THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS AND SUPER BOWL AND NO MAJOR INCIDENCES…MARYLAND WINS A REG CONFERENCE GAME IN A SPORT WHERE THE REG SEASON IS WORTHLESS AND THEY HAVE A RIOT
THE GIRLS BF – OUGHT TO BEAT SHEET OUT OF GRINER
finally someone who brings at least a modicum of civility to the table. and i must point the finger at myself for my rhetoric is was antagonizing at times to say the least. but let’s delve into this Hunter. first of all, and i believe i mentioned this in one of the earlier posts, i was pleasantly suprised that the Tebow commerical was what it was: apolitical, not preachy, etc. but you made a statement that really baffles me in light of the rest of your seemingly cogent post.
“Cany anybody really question the credentials of someone who won a Heisman trophy, contended for three Heismans, and passed for more than 400 yards in a BCS bowl game two months ago?”
i’m sure this must be a mistake. and i’m equally sure you’ll deny what i’m about to say but essentially what you’re implying is that because Tebow is a superb athelete that somehow gives him a special credibility on issues of morality and what a woman should do with her unborn child. i hope it isn’t necessary to point out the obvious nonsense in this but just in case, it’s fucking ridiculous. Tim Tebow’s football don’t make him (or his mother i might add) any more qualified to advise potential mothers on what they should or should not do with their body. Nor does it qualify him to make any moral pronouncements OF ANY KIND.
we have become a society of celebrity worshippers and while i don’t think being an athelete or a movie star or musician disqualifies a person from having insight it damn sure doesn’t insure that they have it to give to others. and once again let me give the disclaimer: THIS COUNTS FOR MEMBERS OF ALL PARTIES, RELIGIONS, PHILOSOPHIES, ETC. now if you agree with Tebow, good for you. but the issue that touched off my tirade was not the superbowl commercial. it was whether or not the NCAA should be a forum for a religious institution to push it’s agenda. i do not think it does. now as far as i now the NCAA is a private organization so if it chose to allow focus on the family to do whatever it wanted i think it would have every constitutional right to do so. THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT SHOULD. and the reason the NCAA did not allow the banner to remain on the site is sound. it’s the same reason it wouldn’t allow some other religion to endorse itself on the NCAA website: because it would offend or exclude a large percentage of the sports community who do not believe what these people belive. can you imagine the outcry from the christian community if, let’s say the church of satan paid for a banner to be placed on the NCAA website?
i admire Tebow’s conviction even though i disagree with it. i admire Ali’s stance on Vietnam. hell i actually agree with that one but it doesn’t mean that the argument had any more or less credence because of who the messenger was.
Ballplay, i wish i could say that it’s been enlightening. it hasn’t. your statement about the so-called census is an out and out lie. you cannot cite the bible as a source for it’s own validity.
and you still haven’t answered a single philosophical challenge i threw down. once again to the point of free will. if god set down the rules of the universe. then god created the rule which made free will and suffering a package deal. ONCE AGAIN. IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE CAN PROVIDE FREE WILL AND ELIMINATE SUFFERING AND EVIL. OTHERWISE HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT. HE IS BOUND BY THE LAW WHICH ACCORDING TO YOU STATES THAT SUFFERING AND PAIN MUST COINCIDE WITH FREE WILL.
and intheknow72 please tell me your dna is not loose in the world. if it is for the love of everything that IS good and decent euthanize it immediately.
this has been my rant.
“I was not; I have been; I am not; I do not mind.”