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  1. 1
    Joey

    It’s a good thing that the NCAA pulled the banner. Everyone with even a passing knowledge of Focus on the Family know that they are an evangelical operation. I was pleasantly suprised that the Tim Tebow Superbowl ad refrained from being preachy and pushing an overt religous or political agenda but NCAA events, pro sports events, and their websites should not be forums for evangelism. And that is the real intent of Focus on the Family: to lure in a bunch of suckers so they can proselytize and hoodwink them into the fold.

    Of course it’s every persons right to free speech. That’s not even the question. Nor is freedom of religion. Believe whatever you want but don’t try to pass it on to the vulnerable or the uneducated or children who have yet to develop the ability to process what is based in fact and what is based in superstition. That is essentially mind rape.

  2. 2
    CRIMSON HAMMAH

    U STUPID IGNORANT SLUT – FOCUS ON THE FAMILY IS GREAT – NOTHING WRONG WITH LEADING PEOPLE KIDS NOT TO GO DOWN THE OLD DIRT ROAD AND DESTROYING THEIR LIVES….I BELIEVE WHAT I WANT AND I WILL WARN KIDS NOT TO GO DOWN THE OLD DIRT ROAD ….

  3. 3
    intheknow72

    Joey, mind rape is reading the words:

    “All I want for my son is for him to grow up knowing how to do the right thing.”

    …and somehow perverting it in your hypersensitive universe to make it offensive. You’ve allowed your own mind to be raped if you can read anything into that statement.

    What you don’t want is for Focus on the Family to have the opportunity to provide a solution for someone seeking answers. You’re the problem; not them.

  4. 5
    AuburnTigerFan

    Being an Auburn alumni, and not one of the Bammurneck dropouts. I can say that family values are very important. You cant spell “Moral Victory” without “Moral”. And that is what we stand for. Morals.
    We dont tolerate no Lying, cheating or stealing here. (Cameron Newton didnt steal a thing. You got a video link for that slander?)
    We are all about doing the right thing.
    thats why we Dont like Gays, abortionist catholics jews or anyone else who isnt a southern baptist and a card carrying member of the k.. er… uh….Krispy Kreme Klub.
    Our minorities are happy down here in Lee County and we dont need nobody coming in here telling them anything different.
    We are a utopia of peace, brtherhood and superior genetics here in Lee County, Family.

  5. 6
    bamadon

    I work in the medical field and trust me there are more gay people in that field than any other profession!! Most gay people
    who I work with are nice people just a little sick in the head!!
    Focus on the Family is a good organization just trying to good
    for people and serving the THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!! RTR

  6. 7
    Greg

    Joey wrote: “Of course it’s every persons right to free speech. That’s not even the question. Nor is freedom of religion. Believe whatever you want but don’t try to pass it on to the vulnerable or the uneducated or children who have yet to develop the ability to process what is based in fact and what is based in superstition. That is essentially mind rape.”

    Uh Joey, try reading what you wrote. Your definition of “mind rape”–whatever the hell such a silly, inflammatory term is supposed to convey–is in fact a definition of free speech. Freedom of speech IS about speaking, evangelizing [not necessarily religious, by the way], trying to change people’s minds. And it starts as soon as people learn to speak and hear. Doesn’t matter whether the listener is young, gullible, or uneducated. Freedom of speech is not abridged based on listener status except in very narrow circumstances [pornography, etc.].

    But NCAA says this is about their choice of [not] accepting advertisers whose messaging conflicts with puiblished NCAA guidelines or values. That is their right. FOF has a right to their views, and certain forums–such as a website–that are not FCC-regulated, can choose to decline to accept their paid advertising. That is all this is about.

    It is not actually about freedom of speech. but it is also not about so-called mind rape, because that is what freedom of speech is.

  7. 8
    intheknow72

    One more thing I would add, Joey:

    Interview a real rape victim and let them tell you Mr. Sensitivity how they feel about you trivializing a word to describe such a horrific event in their life. “Mind rape”? Really?

    And this from a man who subscribes to killing a baby in response to this act.

    Do you see that you have no moral compass in your life…standard of right and wrong…and everything in your universe is measured in terms of convenience?

  8. 9
    Ballplay Indian

    Free speach is not partisan to liberal or conservative agendas. Or, its not supposed to be at least.

    Example : The whole “green” movement. Its not based on fact. Its an organized religion in the way its followers believe. by Joeys standard, every time I see another story, or read of more legeslation being passed about it , am I being “mind raped” ? I feel like Im being sodomized, but thats beside the point.

    The point is that the whole green movement has far more affect on our daily lives and wallets than a pro life commercial (unfortunately). No one is screaming for them to pull all the green B.S.

    Joey, your ignorant. you do not know the facts my friend.

  9. 10
    tideworthy

    If you are anti-Christian, you are passing on a “religion” devoid of the one thing FOF is trying to pass on, the Truth. It is the one thing that can change lives forever.

  10. 11
    crimson hammah

    gays are nice on the outside but squeeze them and the hateful demonic monster they are possessed with gets exposed

  11. 12
    crimson hammah

    gays are sick in the mind and the heart and 90% of time are victims of abuse and should be delivered and not justify their hellish lifestyle.

  12. 13
    Drmos

    Joey people like you are for free speech only when you agree with what is being said.

    Pro-choice is only pro-choice when the choice is abortion.

    See a pattern here?

    P.S. Ballplay Indian you hit a home run.

  13. 15
    Joey

    you stupid rubes. “Mind rape” as i phrased it is teaching a child to believe in something with absolutely NO proof to substantiate it’s claims. Children are going to believe what their parents tell them. If i created a community that said “listen children, if you’ll all give your heart to Puff the Magic Dragon then one day you’ll all go to Never-Never Land!” and had the machinery that the christian community has at it’s disposal then the children would probably grow up and believe it. So there you have it you brainless wastes of sperm. IF YOU FORCE A CHILD TO BELIEVE SOMETHING THROUGH SYSTEMATIC CONDITIONING IT IS MIIIIIIND RAAAAAPPPPE. I was raised in an Assembly of God church to my detriment so I know what I’m talking about.

    How would you like it if a pro-abortion, or pro-gay marriage, or a group supporting the legalization of prostitution or gambling or drugs or anything with an antireligious message put a banner up on the NCAA website or bought an ad for the Superbowl. You’d all be up in arms about how “I don’t watch the Superbowl to have that shit put in my face.”

    And yes it counts for ANY religion, party, philosophy, etc. Christian, Muslim, straight, gay, pro-life, pro-choice etc. The NCAA should not be a forum for political or religious platforms.

    So suck it Ballplay. You don’t know me from the wind. I was only commenting on the article which was the catalyst for my and all of you delusional idiots ranting. Just because I don’t think Fuckus on the Family (let alone religion as a whole)should get to infiltrate the public domain doesn’t mean I agree with everything you disagree with.

    Drmos people who preface a statement with the phrase “people like you” should be dismissed out of hand. Please tell me you’ve been sterilized.

  14. 19
    Joey

    thanks for that ch. I am enlightened. and to paraphase Shakespeare, I think thou dost protest against “the homos” a little too much…

  15. 20
    crimson hammah

    i beg to differ …u cannot protest too much about homos – on the verge of being allowed to be part of the military would be disastrous

  16. 22
    Ballplay Indian

    Joey. being raised in church means nothing (obviously) if you dont have a relationship with Christ. You will never understand our side of the arguement until you have that. 1 Cor. ch 1 vs 18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us wich are saved is the power of God.

    You see , to us, its more than just about free speach. Its about 50 million innocent lives taken since Roe V. Wade.

    In short, its murder.

    Suck on that.

  17. 23
    crimson hammah

    do not be deceived – becoming a christian is by invitation only …if u r not at the party does not mean the party does not exist.

  18. 24
    Joey

    you can’t have a relationship with something that you can’t see and never talks back to you dingus. and even if your version of god was the true one (which it isn’t. it’s a plagarism of an assortment of mythologies.) who would want to worship some celestial prick who lets murder,rape, torture, etc. go on and justifies it by saying if you believe in him he’ll make it up to you in the next life by letting you worship him forever? YEEHAW! WHAT A DEAL!

    i can make up any deity i want and if i can sucker enough people to believe in it then i guess i get tax free exemption eh? and any time they have doubts or questions all i have to do is remind them that they need to have faith. that’s the method used by every tyrant in history.

    but forget all that. your obviously going to believe what you want. i have a question for you. all those innocent lives that were taken by abortion, what happens to their souls?

  19. 25
    Joey

    and crimson hammah. please. you’re embarrassing yourself. Greg and Ballplay are at least offering up some semblance of a debate (albeit a piss-poor semblance of a debate but nevertheless…)

  20. 32
    intheknow72

    Joey, I can pretend to feel sorry for you, but I don’t. I look forward to the day you find out you’re wrong…namely .01 seconds after you take your last breath.

    Your next move out of your “playbook” is to say “If God punishes people for not knowing he’s there, I don’t want to know him.”

    To that I say “good”. It’s then you’ll understand just how insignificant you are, believing you can manufacture and construct “truth” that is relative to your own selfish wants, whims and interests. I choose to have this understanding on THIS side of death. It’s ALL about HIM. It’s NOT about ME.

    The truth is, truth is bigger than you, and you can’t create it. It is was what it is, and spending your life defying it rather than pursuing it will earn you what’s coming to you as soon as your heart beats its last.

    Quit being a douche and accept the fact that you didn’t create the universe. You didn’t create time. You didn’t set life into motion. And you, along with every scientist the world has ever known can’t explain who it all began…and no, theories don’t count.

    Just go on being a douche, but promise me you’ll remember this post as soon as you cross over. You’ve hurt a lot of folks in your life with your ignorant, pompous spewing of what you call wisdom, and then it’ll be time for you to see just how smart you were.

    Or, disappoint me and find the truth in a loving God who’ll forgive you for being a douche and give you an amazing life.

    Personally I hope you don’t, because secretions like you are a dime a million. And every time you call Christianity baseless proves you haven’t spent a minute researching it. The likelihood of the hundreds upon hundreds of prophecies that took place over the course of thousands of years leading up to Christ’s arrival coming true was insurmountable. And yet, they all did.

    But you’re brilliant. I’m sure you’ve researched this fact. That’s why you spit in the face of a holy God with crap like you’ve spewed in here. May God help you, brother, because I’m hoping you won’t let him.

  21. 37
    swa05

    JOEY
    This may fall on deaf ears especially with all the posts I’ve read. To answer one question though about the dead babies, when David’s baby with Bathsheba died and he stopped fasting and praying he began to eat again and his servants asked why. He replied, “I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” (I Sam 12:16-23)

    As a born again believer there is nothing I did. I’m totally depraved and dependent upon Him. I, along with other believers, am no better than anyone. It was all Him and Him through me. If my heart hadn’t been changed there is no telling what I would be like, probably like Tiger Woods. I’m a sinful, wretched person who has been washed by the blood. I’m just like everyone else, but forgiven because of what Christ did.

    You have the right to disagree and that’s your choice. People want to get on here and bash gays, but premarital sex is wrong too, but no one wants to stand up and say that’s wrong b/c society says that’s ok, but being gay isn’t. We all struggle b/c we are imperfect until one day we are united with Him.

    Joey, I don’t know what happened that made you so hateful (bad word choice) toward Christianity, but the responses some people have put on here are disgusting. To wish someone an eternity in hell is awful! It’s nothing we did, it’s His grace. As a believer I apologize for the way people are acting on here, but you have your right to choose how you live and I have mine. I’m sure this is preachy and I apologize, but my heart ached as I read these comments.

    RTR!

  22. 42
    almightytmc1

    Joey,
    I think the word you are looking for is “Brainwashed”.
    Surely, If there is a higher power, It is his job to judge. Not ours.
    Does anyone think he would be pleased with our verbal damning of other’s spiriual mojo? Probably not.
    Spitiuality is a personal thing. What works for some might not work for others. It is freewill. A choice we make for ourselves that best suits us individually.
    Unfortunately the decision is made daily by pros and cons type people. And the clear line in the sand is so murky now no one knows were it originated at. Until the day that the big man upstairs comes down to clarify it, I guess we will all have to let our conscience be our guide, while we are shlepping around here trying to figure out if Jesus could K.O. Budha in the religous boxing ring. And if we made the wrong choice I am sure we will find out inevitably.
    Until then, keep the faith brothers and sisters.

  23. 43
    Ballplay Indian

    Joey….Please understand this. If you dont accept Christ as the only way to heaven, you WILL go to hell. Period. John ch 14 vs 6 says “I am the way the truth and the life , no one cometh to the Father , but by me”…..Buddahs dead and in the ground, Islam speaks for itself, Scientology is worship of self. Only Cristianity tells you that you cant do it by your own actions. Its the only true religion, and the only one that God almighty makes provision for you and I to be with Him through the sacrifice of His only son Jesus (John ch 3 vs 16).

    Unfortunately, more people will not accept Christ than those that will. Mathew ch 7 vs 13 tells us that ” Wide is the gate that leads to destruction”…More will perish than wont. But here is the kicker. It was there choice. To answer your question….Those aborted babies will be in a perfect place. They go to heaven. Why ? they were not given a choice. They were murdered before they knew right from wrong. They were innocent.

    You on the other hand , are like all the rest of us. A sinner. The difference between you and I ? I (lide 05 above explained) have claimed His grace, and promised to follow Him. You see, now you have no excuse. When you stand before the Lord…..AND YOU WILL STAND BEFORE THE LORD…….You cant say you never heard about grace , and who Jesus is. You will bow before Him and tell Him He is God Romans ch 14 vs 11…”As I live saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tounge shall confess to God”….So, why not do it here ? Gove God a chance , and see what happens. Dude, Ive known athiests that did that , and now they are deacons in churches. God will change your life. But youve got to let Him.

    If Ive been less than hospitable, its because I know that people who have hardened their hearts to the Lord must be talked to straight. Cant recall the scripture , but the word says “some you will win by grace, others by fire”. Hell is real, the condition of the world is not Gods fault, its His peoples fault. And God loves you, no matter what youve said or done.

  24. 44
    Joey

    intheknow72 I’m not the one claiming any special knowledge of the universe. Nor are scientists. They are just making theories on what can be observed. You, on the other hand are claiming not only to know that there is a god, but to know exactly what he is and wants. That is the epitomy of hubris. It takes a much stronger person to live with the fact that we don’t know what happens when we die than to just make up a fairytale and construct your life around it.

    And Ballplay hasn’t it occurred to you that any god who would remain invisible and send a person to hell for not believing in him when they didn’t ask to be born in the first place isn’t worth serving? Do you really want to grovel before such a being? I don’t. So if that god exists and there is a hell it would be dishonest of me to cop out and be “saved” by claiming to believe something I don’t.

    And as for the ridiculous assertion that prophecies of the old testament were fulfilled in the new that just means the new testament authors read the old testament. Dumbasses.

    But I see my question is still unanswered and even though I’ve heard the canned christian answer many times before I want to know what you guys think. WHERE DO UNBORN “SOULS” GO WHEN THEY DIE? They haven’t had a chance to accept Jesus right? Someone tell me.

    I’ll be back this afternoon to see what you think. Until then you can bash and condemn me all you want.

  25. 45
    Ballplay Indian

    I answered your question above. they go to heaven. There is scripture to back that up as well. You see , the scriptures are what Christians are supposed to live by. That is how God communicates with us, and tells what we need to know to survive.

    Again, you wouldnt understand. (see 1 Cor 1:18 above)

    For you to claim God is invisible, only further shows your ignorance. How can you look into the eyes of a newborn child and say ” there isnt a God” … If you can do that, you have no soul. How can you look at a sunset or sunrise and claim, there is no God ? How can you see creation, (and thats what it is CREATION) and not see God ? Romans ch 1 vs 20 says “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse”….God speaks to people through the Spirit. Why ? Because He is a Spirit. The physical incarnation of God was Jesus. He was the provision that was set forth before time began. You are without excuse. I hope and pray you make the best decision of your life. But if you continue to curse the Lord, I promise it will not turn out very good for you. Just from reading your posts , I can tell your searching. Joey, you will never be happy until you come to know your Creator, and His plan for you. There is really nothing more I can say besides repent and accept Christ. If you choose no, its on you. You know the truth now its up to you what you do with it.

  26. 46
    intheknow72

    Really? So the New Testament authors read the old testament, which was past down for thousands of years, then fabricated history right in front of millions of people (you forget, the time we live in TODAY is NOT the only time in history) and nobody had a problem with it? That solitary statement tells me all I need to know about you. Saying you’re ignorant is like calling the Grand Canyon “big”.

    Do you know what the penalty was for altering oral history in that day? I’m sure you do, you’re so SMART! They wouldn’t dare or they’d pay with their lives. But by your account, a few authors of the new testament pulled off the unthinkable when the council of nicea finalized what we call the NT in 325 a.d.

    As for your little riddle, God is sovereign and doesn’t need yours or my approval on what to do with their souls. He is the protector of the innocent. They don’t have a voice; you do, and are making an ass of yourself with it. By your own words will He condemn you on that day. While we are thrilled you’ll return this afternoon, it’s not our place to condemn you. It’s as certain as the sunrise.

    So go right ahead and blaspheme the One who can save you on borrowed time and breath He has loaned you. You’ll know we’re right soon enough. But it’ll be too late.

    You are the kind of pond scum that brings nothing to the table in this world, simply throwing stones at what’s right. That’s why I say I honestly hope you keep rejecting Him. He’ll continue to pursue you, but you’re too stupid to repent, which makes my day thinking about it.

  27. 47
    intheknow72

    Ballplay, I can’t believe we finally find ourselves on the right side of an issue together. It’s eerie, isn’t it?

  28. 48
    Ballplay Indian

    Naaa. Not when it comes to this…… This and politics. This is easily said. Their are a lot more things that are more important than football.

    One of the decievers greatest tactics is to influence people to belive that there is no God. He doesnt want God to have glory. He doesnt care if he recieves it or not , as long as God doesnt ger it.

    I have seen way to many things to doubt the existance of Jehova God. I can see Him as easily as the nose on my face. Its just sad to see people who cant.

  29. 49
    Indiana Vol

    If PRIDE, or some other gay/lesbian organization wanted to advertise on the NCAA site, they would be allowed to do so. Just like in public schools, where you can have a meting of gays/lesbians, but are forbidden from having a Bible study.

    Anyone who believes there is not a double standard in America where religion and the homosexual movement is concerned is a COMPLETE IDIOT!

    The reason the public schools kowtow to the gays is because the school officials want to get re-elected and they don’t want any trouble.

    If someone wants to live a gay lifestyle, that is fine with me. Just do it in the privacy of your own home and not in public in front of my child.

    I would like to ask a gay/lesbian how the human race would continue and procreate if everyone was gay. The Good Lord created us male and female and did that for a reason. This argument that gays have that they are born that way is just pure BULLSHIT! IT IS A CHOICE!

    And to the ACLU; go screw yourselves!

  30. 51
    Joey

    so if aborted or miscarried fetuses go to heaven…and the greatest gift you can give your child is to lead them to “the lord” ….then the best thing you could do would be to abort your child before it has any chance to sin! just abort them all and then after all the current adult christians die out there’ll be no need for the rapture! Jesus can destroy the world and all of us wicked sinning scoundrels!

    and Ballpark i didn’t say there wasn’t a god. i said there was no proof that YOUR version of god exists. NONE! do you know how many gods came before the supposed Jesus of Nazareth that were born of a virgin during the Winter solstice? were crucified or martyred in some other manner? were raised from the dead?

    that’s right intheknow72 the new testament authors fabricated history. tell me exactly what prophecies were fulfilled? don’t give me anything about Jesus. WHEN HISTORIANS DON’T EVEN KNOW THAT THE MAN EXISTED…AT ALL! Why is there a lack of reference to the man among contemporary historians of the time? why is there no mention outside of the bible of the account of the dead that were raised in Jerusalem when he was supposed to have been crucified? Did god tell the zombies to just lay low?

    If the Judeo-christian god exists then why did he obscure all of the evidence so well and leave so much doubt. I guess it was a conspiracy by the secular world to bury the wondrous truth.

    Guys. Think about it. Virgins don’t have babies. People don’t come back to life after three days of being dead. A man cannot spend 3 days inside the belly of a fish. Just admit this is ludicrous and let it go.

  31. 52
    crimson hammah

    ABORTED BABIES DO GO TO HEAVEN AND THEN BACK FOR THE 1000 YR REIGN OF CHRIST AND THEN AT THE END OF THAT AGE WILL MAKE A DECISION ON CHRIST…

  32. 53
    crimson hammah

    JOEY CANNOT CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD UNLESS CALLED FIRST….GOD CHOOSES US FIRST…LOOK IT UP….JOEY MIGHT BE PREDESTINATED TO HELL

  33. 54
    crimson hammah

    FINISHING UP ABORTED BABIES AT END OF 1000 YR REIGN OF CHRIST IN EARTH THEN DECIDES TO FOLLOW JESUS AND AN ETERNITY IN NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH

  34. 55
    crimson hammah

    JOEY CAN FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT IN HIS HEAD AND STILL BURN – IT IS NOT A HEAD THING FIRST – IT IS A HEART ISSUE …

  35. 56
    crimson hammah

    THE WHOLE BIBLE IS TRUE AND YES LOOK IT UP SOMEWHERE ON THE INTERNET THEY FIGURED OUT WHAT FISH JONAH SPENT 3 DAYS IN ….IN THE RED SEA THEY FOUND BONES AND CHARIOTS ….NOAHS ARK HAS BEEN SPOTTED UNDER THE SNOW IN A MTN RANGE WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS IT WOULD BE…JESUS’S BLOOD WAS FOUND AND HAD NO MALE CHROMOSONE…THE BIBLE HAS BEEN AUTHENTICATED OVER AND OVER….THE ONE FISH IN THE FIRE – ISRAEL…

  36. 59
    crimson hammah

    IT IS NOT ABOUT A MIND ACKNOWLEDGING THE EXISTENCE OF GOD BECAUSE YOU KNOW IN YOUR HEART AND MIND HE DOES….IT IS ABOUT BOWING DOWN TO THE LORD AND MASTER OTHER THAN YOURSELF WHICH APROX. 97% OF PEOPLE WILL DO BUT WHEN IT IS TO LATE…

  37. 61
    Joey

    crimson hammah and indiana vol, the adults are trying to have a conversation. now hush and go watch some more Veggie Tales.

    Kill your babies folks. That way they’ll go to heaven.

    CHECKMATE. You guys needed Admiral Ackbar.

  38. 63
    Ballplay Indian

    Whatever Joey. You wont get any rise from me, just pity.

    Why dont YOU do a little research and then YOU will see that the more historians try to refute the existance of Christ, His miracles , and His purpose, the more they prove His existance, miracles, and purpose.

    What prophecies were fullfilled ? Read the book of Daniel. I believe there are over 300 EXACT, not vauge prophecies fullilled in that one book alone. For instance , the entire power struggle in the middle east was prophecied for the next 5 -600 years by Daniel. Jewish scholars even went to Alexander the great, telling him what those prophecies were, and how HE was fullfilling them. He , much like you , brushed them off.

    I can promise you that if you look to disprove the bible, you will only prove its authenticity. Dont go on the web looking for the anit-christian stance on it. Be bi-partisan, and truly seek the truth, and you will find it. read Lee Strobel’s THE CASE FOR CHRIST for starters. Study on the prophecies of Elijah. Most definantly study the prophecies of Daniel. It will amaze you.

    But, you dont want to do that, do you ? It would mean that you would have to change some things about yourself. What you dont realize, is that you CANT live a meaningful purpose driven life without having God in your heart.

    Abortion is murder. Its a sin. A forgiveable sin. Jesus took that on Himself when He died on the cross. Thats the definition of love , not being a tyrant.

    You are decieved.

  39. 64
    Ballplay Indian

    Also, read on the Roman scholar ? historian named Jerome , (I think that was his name). He was not a Christian, but he was the most respected historian of the day, and he verified everything the bible recounts in exact detail.

  40. 65
    Joey

    So let’s abort all the babies then Ballpark! Then they’ll never get a chance to sin! See? This is were your absurd logic leads. More absurdity. Oh and hey Ballpark I predict there’ll be conflict in the Middle East for another hundred years. If that comes true does it mean I’m a prophet. I want you to give me CONCRETE example of these fullfilments of prophecy. Oh and please try to nail down who that lone Roman scholar who verified these bibical accounts was please.

    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

  41. 66
    Joey

    and since you’re suggesting books for me to read i wonder if you’re willing to read books or watch movies that come from secular sources that challenge your silly fairytale dogma. watch “The God Who Wasn’t There” IF YOU DARE. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  42. 67
    crimson hammah

    joey – u stupid ignorant slut – when Jesus returns in around 2030 and will establish a 1000 yr reign on earth those aborted babies will have grown up and live in the 1000 yrs on earth and will have to decide to follow Jesus or Satan ….so an aborted baby has no gurarantee of eternal life with Jesus

  43. 69
    crimson hammah

    joey – i’ve deebunked your aborted baby argument – they will have the oppurtunuty to sin and choose Satan …move on

  44. 72
    crimson hammah

    I know Jesus personally – seen Him heard Him so on and so forth …just because Jesus has made no effort to know you does not mean He doesn’t exist…U obviously have not been invited to the party – so don’t be a sore loser about…Crimson Hammah is the chosen one and u were not…God chooses us – we don’t choose God – look it up…but the good news is – u r in the 97% that won’t make it so u r not alone.

  45. 74
    crimson hammah

    THE BEAUTY OF CREATION SAYS GOD EXISTS AND U KNOW IT – U R JUST TRYING TO JUSTIFY IN YOUR MIND WHY U WILL NOT BOW DOWN TO ANOTHER MASTER NOT YOURSELF…SCREW THE MENTAL GYMNASTICS THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE

  46. 75
    crimson hammah

    U CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH BECAUSE SATAN HAS BLINDED YOU TO THE TRUTH AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING – FUGGEDBOUTIT IT’S AN ISSUE OF THE HEART

  47. 77
    crimson hammah

    JOEY – U WERE WRONG ON THE ABORTED BABY ISSUE AND U R WRONG ON EVERYTHING …BUT IF U R NOT INVITED U R NOT INVITED AND U R OUT…NOT A DANG THING I CAN DO IT ABOUT …

  48. 79
    intheknow72

    OH MY GOSH JOEY! DID YOU REALLY JUST CLAIM THERE WAS NO MENTION OF JESUS “OUTSIDE” THE BIBLE????? You are a complete moron.

    You might as well have just tried to argue that the sky is made out of fudge.

    There is a plethora of examples in secular literature of a man named Jesus of Nazareth who did what the gospels claim he did…far too many to mention here.

    I’ve argued with atheists before, but I’ve never run across one as uninformed as you. You’ve made my day, frankly.

    If you can tear yourself away from your kiddy porn, read the Case For Christ by Lee Stroebel. He was an idiot like you who was challenged to prove that Jesus Christ was sham, and after taking some 14 different angles in an attempt to disprove it, he arrived at the notion that there could be no other possibility that it was all true.

    Again, I’m really just beating you like a pinata for the entertainment of the room, because I truly don’t believe you’re smart enough to look beyond yourself for the answers. But in the event someone is reading this that needs to hear it, that is a fantastic book.

  49. 80
    crimson hammah

    GOT TO GO NOW – WILL WORK IT ON THE SABBATH …FOUND IT ON YOUTUBE – FIRST HUGE ERROR – MAN DID NOT WRITE BIBLE – GOD DID THROUGH MAN – SO GOD CAN INSPIRE THE TRUTH A DAY LATER OR A 1000 YRS LATER IT DOESNT MATTER THAT THE GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN 40ISH YRS LATER….THE BIBLE SAYS STUDY THE WORD – WHICH WAS A HEBREW AND ARAMEAN …SO THE ENGLISH VERSIONS WILL MISS ALOT…

  50. 83
    Joey

    intheknow72 go back and read what i said. i didn’t say there was NO mention. i said there was a lack of reference. let me be precise. there are maybe one or two historians who mention a man called Jesus of Nazareth.

    crimson hammah you are truly frightening my batshit crazy friend.

    so to summarize: christians, please abort your babies and hasten armageddon. it’s the right thing to do.

  51. 84
    crimson hammah

    JOEY THE EVIL HEARTED – MAKE THE BEST OUT OF YOUR SITUATION – NON STOP BJ’S – IF U R INTO CHICKS – U HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE… THAT WOULD BE ME IF I WAS BOUND FOR THE ETERNAL FIRE

  52. 85
    crimson hammah

    WHAT DON’T U UNDERSTAND ABOUT AN ABORTED BABY IS NOT GUARANTEED ETERNAL LIFE WITH JESUS AND WILL HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN JESUS AND SATAN

  53. 89
    crimson hammah

    TO SUMMARIZE JOEY BARRING A MIRACLE WILL BURN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR A MILLION PLUS YEARS OVER AND OVER AGAIN

  54. 98
    Tom Cruise

    You are all glib! The book of scientology says so!
    L. Ron Hubbard will not allow you into his spaceship when the chosen ones escape from this dying planet!

  55. 99
    Brigham Young Jr. the VI

    You are all uniformed! The book of Mormon foretells of this!
    You will not make it to the stellar heaven and end up in a lessor one!

  56. 100
    Allistar Crowley

    You are all shmucks!
    Satan is the true ruler of the universe. If you dont convert our bible says you will be bored for eternity!

  57. 101
    JMUH SINGOCISHNAPORIPAT

    hare!!!! hare!!! krishna!!! Krishna!
    You will never see fulfillment or peace until you have prayed to a head of lettuce!!!!

  58. 102
    almightytmc1

    Enough already.
    I may have learned a couple of things in my time on Earth.

    One…. A person is going to believe what the want, regardless of what you tell them.
    Teo. If there is a God (and I believe there is) …. it is his job to bring them into line. Not ours.
    Three …..Stop trying to be God’s Deputy Sheriff and try to bring YOUR LIFE into his will. If you can do that, your best testimony is your actions and not your words…..
    And honestly, I think that is how he would prefer it.

  59. 103
    intheknow72

    A few? First Joey, it’s important to note that the number of writers that will satisfy your fancy compared to today’s literature is different as night and day. No printing presses, varied literacy, and certainly no periodicals make are argument hollow. But here ya go…if this is a few, I’m a nine legged giraff:

    The earliest non-Christian reports were made by the Jews. Flavius Josephus, who lived until 98 A.D., was a romanized Jewish historian. He wrote books on Jewish history for the Roman people. In his book, Jewish Antiquities, he made references to Jesus. In one reference he wrote:

    About this time arose Jesus, a wise man, who did good deeds and whose virtues were recognized. And many Jews and people of other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. However, those who became his disciples preached his doctrine. They related that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive. Perhaps he was the Messiah in connection with whom the prophets foretold wonders. [Josephus, Jewish Antiquities, XVIII 3.2]

    Even though several different forms of this particular text have survived through the twenty centuries, they all agree with the above cited version. This version is considered to be the closest to the original – the least suspected of Christian text-tampering. Elsewhere in this book, Josephus also reported the execution of St. John the Baptist [XVIII 5.2] and St. James the Just [XX 9.1], even referring to James as “the brother of Jesus who was called Christ.” It should be noted that the past tense in the clause, “Jesus who was called Christ,” argues against Christian text-tampering since a Christian would prefer to write instead, “Jesus who is called Christ.”

    Another Jewish source, the Talmud, makes several historical references to Jesus. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the Talmud is “the collection of ancient Rabbinic writings consisting of the Mishnah and the Gemara, constituting the basis of religious authority for traditional Judaism.” Although not explicitly referred to by name, later rabbis identify the person as Jesus. These references to Jesus are neither sympathetic to Him or His Church. Also these writings were preserved through the centuries by Jews, so Christians cannot be accused of tampering with the text.

    The Talmud makes note of Jesus’ miracles. No attempt is made to deny them, but it ascribes them to magical arts from Egypt. Also His crucifixion is dated as “on the eve of the Feast of the Passover” in agreement with the Gospel (Luke 22:1ff; John 19:31ff). Similar again to the Gospel (Matt. 27:51), the Talmud records the earthquake and the tearing in two of the Temple curtain during the time of Jesus’ death. Josephus in his book, The Jewish War, also confirmed these events.

    By the beginning of the 2nd century, Romans were writing about Christians and Jesus. Pliny the Younger, proconsul in Asia Minor, in 111 A.D. wrote to Emperor Trajan in a letter:

    …it was their habit on a fixed day to assemble before daylight and recite by turns a form of words to Christ as a god; and that they bound themselves with an oath, not for any crime, but not to commit theft or robbery, or adultery, not to break their word, and not to deny a deposit when demanded. After this was done, their custom was to depart, and meet again to take food… [Pliny, Epistle 97]

    Special attention should be made to the phrase, “to Christ as a god,” an early secular witness to the belief in Christ’s divinity (John 20:28; Phil. 2:6). Also it is interesting to compare this passage with Acts 20:7-11, a biblical account of an early Christian Sunday celebration.

    Next the Roman historian, Tacitus, who is respected by modern scholars for historical accuracy, wrote in 115 A.D. about Christ and His Church:

    The author of the denomination was Christ[us] who had been executed in Tiberius time by the Procurator Pontius Pilate. The pestilent superstition, checked for a while, burst out again, not only throughout Judea…but throughout the city of Rome also… [Tacitus, Annals, XV 44]

    Even with disdain for the Christian faith, Tacitus still treated the execution of Christ as historical fact, drawing connections to Roman events and leaders. (cf. Luke 3:1ff)

    Other secular witnesses to the historical Jesus include Suetonius in his biography of Claudius, Phlegan recording the eclipse of the sun during Jesus’ death and even Celsus, a pagan philosopher. It must be kept in mind that most of these sources were not only secular but anti-Christian. These secular authors, including the Jewish writers, had no desire or intention to promote Christianity. They had no motivation to distort their reports in favor of Christianity. Pliny actually punished Christians for their faith. If Jesus were a myth or His execution a hoax, Tacitus would have reported it as such. He certainly would not have connected Jesus’ execution to Roman leaders. These writers presented Jesus as a real historical person. Denying the reliability of these sources in connection to Jesus would cast serious suspicion on the rest of ancient history.

    Now these ancient secular writings do not prove that Jesus is the Son of God or even the Christ, but that is not the goal of this tract. These reports show that a virtuous person named Jesus did live in the early first century A.D. and authored a religious movement (which still exists today). This Person was at least called Christ – the Messiah. Christians in the first century also appeared to consider Him God. Finally these writings support other facts found in the Bible surrounding His life. The claim that Jesus never existed and His life is a myth compromises the reliability of ancient history.

  60. 104
    intheknow72

    Joey, buddy, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve just nailed you to the wall. You can say you hate God or the idea of God, but you don’t have an atom of an earthen molecule to stand on saying there is no God.

    What’s your next argument? Do you dare?

  61. 107
    Joey

    wow in the know it must’ve taken you all of two minutes to google your “evidence” just like it took me to google this:

    The writings of Tacitus and Pliny do not prove the existence of Jesus as these authors were born late in the first century of the current era.. In the case of the Roman historian, the passage in question comes from his annals. It is no secret that after the fire that consumed Rome in 64 A.D. the emperor Nero scapegoated Christians because he had to blame the fire on someone. Tacitus, who is never objective when he mentions Nero, probably had to balance this with the dislike of the Christians typical of the Roman pagans of his day against his dislike of Nero. Although there is no evidence that Tacitus hated the early Christians, perhaps his hatred for the former emperor was greater. He does mention that the Christians were likely not the cause of the fire but merely a convenient and unpopular target to distract blame away.

    The Annals do not prove that Jesus Christ existed but merely that Christians existed in the First Century A.D., which no scholar has ever disputed. Tacitus lived too far away from the events that supposedly took place in Galilee almost a hundred years before his birth to know about them first hand.

    The next piece of evidence of Jesus’s existence is the letters of Pliny the Younger. In a letter to the Emperor Trajan while serving as the governor of Pontus and Bithynia from 111 to 113 of the current era, Pliny asks the emperor how to handle people caught in a witch hunt and accused of the crime of being Christian.

    Trajan’s response shows a remarkable and measured restraint as well as indicating leniency for those who repented of the crime of Christianity, but the Emperor suggested the appropriate punishment for those still guilty of being Christians.Pliny’s letter fails to prove the existence of Jesus. First, the dates 112 to 113 do not coincide with the date of Jesus’s execution which took place in roughly 30 A.D. Secondly, Pliny himself was born long after the death of Jesus and would not have personal knowledge.

    you have sooooo nailed me to the wall. i’m ready to repent now. will you please lead me in the sinner’s prayer?

    HAIL SATAN! THE YEAR IS ONE AND GOD IS DONE!

    ya idgits.

  62. 114
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    SATANISM TEACHES ONE HUMAN LIFE IS WORTH ONE PENNY…GOD SAYS ONE HUMAN LIFE IS WORTH THE TORTURE CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH OF HIS PERFECT SON – JESUS CHRIST..YUP SATAN IS DA MAN.

  63. 120
    intheknow72

    Joey, I differ from other Christians you’ve sparred with in the past in that I don’t give a shit about you. Most will approach you gently, hoping this will be the day that your heart softens and you finally see the light. I on the other hand recognize heartless bastard when I see one, and it’s clear your decisions have been set in stone.

    The Bible says to seek the Lord while He may be found; His ship sailed on you a long time ago because you’ve made the eternal mistake of believing you’re god. There’s no telling how many times He tried to reach you, but your arrogance has you intoxicated with yourself. So with that…

    The fodder you tried to throw on the table about Tacitus has more holes than a whiffle ball. He hated Nero more, so he went out of his way to write about Christians. Riiiiiight. You obviously have zero education in historical literature. And I love how you just passed over the others that you DIDN’T have an answer for.

    Look, I don’t give a rat’s butt hair what you believe. I couldn’t care less about your eternity. You have chosen, and I celebrate your choice.

    The difference is, if I’m wrong when I die, I cease to be. If you’re wrong, you’re fucked. Sucks being you.

    Some things are just true whether you believe them or not; you’ll agree with me someday. But as the song goes…

    “It’s too late baby, now it’s too late..”

    And the most titillating part about all this for me? You will FULLY remember this conversation while you’re burning in hell. As the other song goes..

    “Burn baby burn…Joey inferno! Burn baby burn!”

  64. 121
    CRIMSON HAMMAH

    AGAIN IF JOEY DOESN’T TURN AROUND I GOT DIBS ON THROWING HIS BUTT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE…IN THE KNOW IS RIGHT U GOTTA BE REAL ….THE SYRUPY FAKE PHONY CHRISTIAN GIVES JESUS A BAD NAME …THE LORD IS A WARRIOR AND THE LORD IS HIS NAME.

  65. 123
    Joey

    Guys guess what! I got saved today! After reading your posts during this discussion I decided to go to church with my parents today. I was skeptical as usual but during the sermon the Pastor began to say some things that really hit home and it was as if the Holy Spirit was speaking RIGHT TO ME!

    So I’d like to apologize for all of the ridiculing I’ve done to you guys on this forum as well as all the other people I’ve done it to throughout the years.

    And I’d also like to say that it’s true what they say. Jesus has a plan for YOU! Upon accepting Him into my heart and praying a prayer of repentence I was imbued with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues. “hambilbiaaaaa ah a biblia aaaa sh sh sh haaaa shoobity bobbity aaaaaaahhhh.” which when translated means “if you love your babies abort them before they mature and they will be taken to heaven.” I was commanded by “The Lord” to send this message to you. Also I was instructed to tell you to give me all of your money and that you are know all my slaves until the rapture, after which you will be upgraded to contracted labor and recieve minimum wage for your service.

    YOU STUPID FUCKS! KEEP YOUR LIES TO YOUR FUCKING SELVES YA IDGITS! YOUR-GOD-DOES-NOT-EXIST!!!! THANKFULLY! WHO WOULD WANT TO KNOW A BEING THAT ENDORSES GENOCIDE AND SLAVERY AND PROMOTES FEAR AND HATRED NOT ONLY EXISTS, BUT IS IN CHARGE OF THINGS!

    and crimson hammah, if there’s a hell i’ll see you there. you’ve helped make this thread awesome buddy!

  66. 124
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    CONGRATS JOEY – I THINK U BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT – THE ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN.U R A LIAR – U KNOW DANG WELL HE EXISTS.GOD DOES NOT ENDORSE NEITHER SLAVERY OR GENOCIDE.

    I WILL SEE U AT THE LAKE OF FIRE WHERE I GOT DIBS TO CAST YOUR BUTT IN …LOL

  67. 126
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    JOEY – R U BAMA OR AU AND SINCE UR FATE SEEMS TO BE SEALED WILL U CELEBRATE WITH CHICKS OR GO DOWN THE OLD DIRT ROAD.

  68. 127
    Joey

    so if you’re gonna see me at the lake of fire i guess you’re not going to heaven either? what did god the father look like? oh and i’m gonna celebrate with women, men AND animals to cover all the bases…and some of those hot devil chicks like that tattoo artist COOP draws.

  69. 129
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    God the Father looked like Jesus and me (a family resemblance) ancient but not old – no wrinkles white hair no beard…very sweet loving daddy that is eager to get down on the floor and play with his kids ….
    JESUS (revealed as a friend in this case) – 33yr oldish ,6 ft tall, blue eyes ,long brown hair and full grizzly adams type beard pointed style nose – eyes closer together…normal guy – beautiful not handsome(isaiah 53)
    ADAM – movie star good looks – slicked back jet black hair.
    EVE – gorgeous and long glamourous reddish hair.

  70. 130
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    yes i am going to heaven …but at the great white throne judgement where you are judged barring a miracle i will be there as a witness whether i get to throw you in is up to God.

  71. 132
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    and what is wrong with homo bashing when they bash the boy and girl scouts…buy girl scout cookies

  72. 135
    Indiana Vol

    Akmed,

    Take your book of lies (koran) and your Evil Muslim beliefs and stick them where the sun don’t shine!

    Islam is an evil set forth by Satan himself!

  73. 136
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    NOT COUNTING NICK SABAN’S FIRST YEARS AT BAMA AND LSU…NICK HAS WON THE SEC WEST TITLE IN 5 OF THE 7 YRS HE HAS COACHED.LIVING LEGEND – ABTHOLUTELY

  74. 137
    intheknow72

    Joey, all kidding aside buddy, I realize your playbook calls for being as offensive and flamboyant as possible to call attention to yourself. And I realize you didn’t get enough attention from your parents growing up, which is why you seek it out today.

    I can honestly say you’ve slightly altered my opinion on abortion; I wish your mother had aborted you. You are a waste of space, air and resources. May God end your miserable existence sooner than later.

  75. 139
    intheknow72

    It is, and let me apologize for my language and frankness in this post. I could have and should have said some things differently.

    The Joeys of the world just get on my last nerve because their only intent is to cause chaos, attacking the belief system of the most peaceful religion in the world. I’d love to see him go to Beirut, Iran or Pakistan and take this same stance with Islam, but then, that would take intestinal fortitude. Only a coward attacks Christianity. A complete, gutless coward.

  76. 142
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    THESE SOCIALIST AND COMMUNIST ARE CALLING FOR THE DOWNFALL OF THE USA – AND SHOULD BE HANGED FOR TREASON

  77. 143
    Joey

    thank you for the christian charity intheknow72. you truly are a paragon of christian virtue. as for me being “a complete gutless coward” at least i have the courage to accept that death might be complete oblivion and i might never know what the meaning of life was if there was any meaning to it at all.

    furthermore, it would alot more bravery to stand up to some cosmic dictator if he existed, and opt to take whatever punishment he doled out than to pine over him out of fear of punishment OR the promise of an eternal reward when he allows the atrocities and pain of this world. here’s a question for you? a variation on the age old free-will/existence of evil debate. you say that god allows the existence of evil because not to do so would take away man’s free will? if god could do anything he could give man free will AND eliminate evil and pain simultaneously! you see unless he’s bound by some greater force HE WROTE THE RULES OF THE UNIVERSE! HE CREATED THE VERY CONCEPT OF EVIL!

    you grovel before a fairytale god because you fear death and also because you can’t except the fact that if you ever do wake up it will be to realize what a fool you’ve been to waste your life on such a lie. i require no lectures in being brave from you you pussy.

    your peaceful religion teaches children that they are flawed from birth and that they might burn for all eternity if they don’t make the right choice. they might even sin by thinking! and these poor kids (i was one of them) don’t have the power of reason to know that this is just a myth. if they do finally break free of this brainwashing it’s a tough road. and the scars will likely always be there.

    take your holier-than-thou act and stuff it you shyster!

  78. 144
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    GOOD TO HEAR FROM U J I THOUGHT U HAD SELF – ABORTED….NOW THERE IS SOME LOGIC INTO SOMEONE LIKE U JOEY IF SOMEBODY IS ADAMANT ABOUT GOING TO HELL -IT WOULD BE BETTER TO CHECK OUT NOW AND SPEND ETERNITY AT A 1000 DEGREE HEAT …CONTINUE TO LIVE AND SIN – U RISK GETTING A 2000 DEGREE ETERNAL HEAT…

  79. 145
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    AND NO ….LIFE HAS PROVED …THE FREE WILL OF MAN PRODUCES EVIL PAIN ETC…GOD DID IT RIGHT ….6000 YRS OF EARTH THEN A 1000 YR REIGN OF CHRIST ON EARTH THEN ALL OF ETERNITY

  80. 146
    intheknow72

    No, I serve a loving God who loved me even when I was a puddle of piss, like you. And amazingly, for reasons I can’t offer, He loves you just as much.

    Your heart is hard, your speech is brash and your arrogance is nauseating, but your fate is sealed if you sustain your refusal to live within your own understanding and not do a thorough, exhaustive examination of the truth.

    Thank God mine is not simply an intellectual understanding of this Jesus you spit upon. While you want to belittle Him and me, believe you me your spittle doesn’t phase Him in the least. You’re not the first to spit on Him.

    But what you can’t speak to is my experience, and this “fairy tale” has changed my life forever. It’s a pity that will never be your testimony. Or will it? You haven’t the courage to try.

  81. 147
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    and there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to contunue forty and two months.revelation 13:5 kjv

  82. 149
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    And in there mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the Throne of God. Revelation 14:5 kjv

  83. 150
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    A good man obtaineth favor of the Lord: but a man of wicked devices He shall condemn. Proverbs 12:2 kjv

  84. 151
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,that both thou and thy seed may live: Deutoronomy 30:19

  85. 152
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    Come unto me, all that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me;
    for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls.
    For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.
    Matthew 11:28-30

  86. 153
    Ballplay Indian

    There isnt any need to further debate Joey. All we can do is pray for him. I for one will not engage with him, unless he grows up a lot.

  87. 154
    Joey

    intheknow72 don’t you think that Muslims conversions have changed their lives as well? or Buddhists? Or Hindus?

    you can’t deal with the logic i just layed out for you. if god is all powerful and the author of everything then evil is part of his creation. otherwise god is not in complete control. he does not encompass everything. he is not infinite. there are forces that operate independently of his domain and either he allows this or is incapable of stopping it. now if this is what your claiming fine. but that would be against your dogma wouldn’t it? in order for your version of “god” to exist he must be all-powerful, all-knowing, infallible. but the reality we experience every day renders this version impossible. either god created evil and allows or even endorses it, or he has no power over it. which would mean he’s not all powerful wouldn’t it?

    and any time someone of any faith speaks about “my experience” as if that’s solid ground to stand on in a debate has run out of straws to grasp.

    ballpark thanks for not engaging me. it’s nice of you to accept that one person just beat you and all of your christian fuckbuddies like three-legged mules.

    oh and crimson hammah your damnation fetish is really disturbing. i imagine your basement must resemble that of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. keep me out of your sicko fantasies ya troll!

  88. 155
    capstonereport

    Just because General Motors creates an automobile that when used inappropriately causes death doesn’t mean GM is morally responsible for the misuse of a car. It is a nice rhetorical trick to attempt to fault God when his creations misuse free choice. GM knows people will die in car accidents, but that doesn’t mean GM should stop making cars.

    As to the question if God allows evil, of course orthodox Christians have always said he allowed evil because without the possibility to choose wrong then there would be no choice. Orthodox Christians also usually claim that the consequences of evil are important to moral creatures. Without consequences (good and bad), a choice has no real meaning.

  89. 156
    Ballplay Indian

    Cap. Your wasting your breath. Joey will have to make his own mind up, and unfortunately, no one can give the kid any advice. The ball is in his court.

  90. 158
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    DAMNATION IS ANY SECOND NOW OR AT MOST RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER…I AM A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST WHO SPOKE ON HELL MORE THAN HEAVEN – LOOK IT UP.

  91. 159
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    U DO BELIEVE IN GOD – U JUST REFUSE TO BOW DOWN TO ANOTHER MASTER OTHER THAN YOURSELF – U R LYING AND TRYING TO DELUDE YOURSELF INTO THAT BELIEF..U R A REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE

  92. 161
    Joey

    thanks for finally weighing in capstone. i didn’t try to emply a “rhetorical trick.” i stated something that should be apparent to any thinking person. your silly analogy about GM would be a nice example of a rhetorical trick however.

    now i want you and whoever else is reading this to think about it. what christians (as least the fundamentalists) claim is that god is absolutely all-powerful, all-knowing, and somehow all-good. somehow you ignore the obvious paradox that if a being is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent and exists within a universe were evil and suffering are also present then that evil is part of this so called god who encompasses all things. according to your world view god is all encompassing entity that pervades and surrounds EVERYTHING. he created EVERYTHING. according to you who set the laws of the universe in motion. to be short he wove the fabric of reality.

    so you can’t justifiably make the claim that such a being created everything -including the non-material, i.e. thought, concepts, rules, principles – and yet is exempt from being held to account for misery and suffering. i repeat what i said before. if god exists as you say he does he created THE VERY CONCEPT OF EVIL.

    you cannot get all of the credit without taking some of the blame.

    also capstone back to your GM analogy. can customers of General Motors not actually contact the manufacturer? i mean physically, actually confront them over issues like faulty design, repair, etc? there’s no invisible car industry out there we can’t see who the mechanics or dealers ask us to blindly trust and believe in whenever we have car problems. “just take their word for it. you might not understand but GM knows what’s best. and it’s there, even though you can’t see it.” so there you go. turn your analogy around and look at it from another angle.

    oh and by the way. doesn’t the header for this site have the tagline “News and Commentary about Alabama Athletics”? perhaps it should read “News and Commentary about Alabama Athletics and Shameless Promotion of Evangelical Propagandists” i think that might be more accurate.

    you know i really enjoyed your site when it actually concerned things related to Alabama Football. but what in the hell does Focus on the Family have to do with it?

  93. 162
    Ballplay Indian

    This thread was started about the NCAA (you know the “god” of college football”, and how they are unfairly treading on players , and the ones endorsing (commercials) the game. If you cant connect the dots , then you are beyond ignorant. YOU were the one that brought the substance of this thread into play. Then , you blame Cap. Here is an idea. Go somewhere else if you dont like it. Its his blog, dont like it , tough crap.

    Oh , yeah….Im not talking to you. Nevermind.

    You clain that Christians are the hypocrites, when really its you.

  94. 165
    Ballplay Indian

    What about an AMEN !!!!!

    It wouldnt kill you Joey. You might even find it liberating.

    What exactly do you hate about Christianity ? The fact that it teaches loving people . Mabe its the whole “putting others first” you dispise.

    Wait, I know……………….Its the living with purpose, and striving for rightiousness” thing.

    You confuse Gods people , with God .

  95. 166
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH EVIL – EVIL SEPARATES THE GOOD FROM THE EVIL

  96. 167
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    JEALOUSY , JOEY IS MAD BECAUSE JESUS IS GOD AND HE AIN’T….JESUS IS LORD AND MASTER OVER ALL AND HE AIN’T…..JEALOUSY

  97. 168
    Ballplay Indian

    Joey, what exactly do you believe in ? I know that you favor one thing or another. Im guessing evolution. Am I right in assuming that ? N one believes in nothing. You have to lean toward some belief as to how the Universe happened.

  98. 169
    Joey

    i believe that no human being knows the answer. i’m more in line with the eastern philosophies. i like the eastern proverb that says “it is better to travel than to arrive.” but i am not religious and i believe in no deities that men claim to have existed throughout history. so in other words. i know what i DON’T believe.

    having said that i think there is a bit of truth and wisdom in all of the religions and philosophies and that it’s perfectly fine to study their texts as long as you acknowledge that they were man made.

    one thing i can say without doubt that i believe in is that the tradition of tying oneself down to this or that dogma has damaged and held humanity back for centuries.

    and yes i do believe in evolution. but even some christians believe in that.

  99. 173
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    no way is 2 + 2 not 4 – no way am i wrong.and thx for the video putting in a claim to throw his butt in the lake of fire too. i am up to six.

  100. 174
    Joey

    how many times do you imagine throwing men’s “butts in the lake of fire” crimson? i bet not as many as the amount of leather studded paddles and ball gags you own.

  101. 175
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    i imagine them with clothes on and if that ain’t the case i will reneg on my committment,,,,and no s and m stuff ever

  102. 176
    Ballplay Indian

    So, why the disdain for only Chrisianity ? It seems your issues are particular to only my religion and my God….

    Tell me exactly what you think is “wrong” with it.

  103. 177
    Joey

    ballplay you haven’t been paying attention. early on i said that the NCAA shouldn’t be a platform for ANY religious group (or political group for that matter) if i didn’t make it clear enough that i disdain any belief system based purely on faith alone then consider this a correction of that. islam, judaism and christianity are in the same boat with the Greek and Roman mythology.

    i hold a special distate for your religion because as i said before i was a victim of it. i was conditioned to believe it before my mind had developed the rational defense mechanism needed to counterbalance it’s assertions. this is much like islamic radicals recruiting young men who have no life experience and no education to weigh against what their being taught.

    now you can certainly claim that modern christianity is less dangerous that fundamentalist islam but only in the physical and only because it has refined itself over the years and trimmed off the more extreme ideas that were put forth supposedly by god himself. i.e. stoning children who disobey their parents, commands to commit genocide, murdering homosexuals, animal sacrifice, etc.

    so what i say is why not scrap the rest of the ridiculous and unreasonable elements of christianity altogether? by this i mean asking people to believe in the supernatural when there is no evidence for it. as the author Sam Harris puts it, this type of behavior is not accepted anywhere else in society. you wouldn’t go to a doctor with kidney stones and accept him telling you that you were infected with an unclean spirit and that an excorcism was in order. you’d look at him like he was out of his mind. if your tv messed up you wouldn’t trust the repairman who blaimed it on the tv god. you put your trust in science and reason in ever other element of your life. why argue with it on this issue? true, science can’t explain everything, but it’s much more intellectualy honest and, i believe more healthy, to pursue knowledge empirically and accept the things we can’t understand as mysteries yet to be solved instead of coming up with superstitious excuses for them.

    people don’t need a deity to believe in in order to be civil and kind to each other. i think if you look around the world today this is plain to see.

  104. 178
    Ballplay Indian

    Still not real sure on how you were “victimized” by Chrisitianity. How so ? Like I said, the whole “right from wrong” thing must really strike your nerve.

    I think I might have you figured out. Im guessing your 20-27 years of age. Probably a college student , or grad. You are just now getting some freedoms youve never gotten before and now you think your all grown up. I am also guessing you have no children, and prabably own a dog or cat that you probably treat like a child. You spend way too much time looking at “intellects” on the web that do not know there butt from a hole in the ground , and treat everything they say as the gospel(pun intended).

    The fact of the matter is that the older you get, the wiser you will get. Well, maybe. …. Anyway, when you mature , you will see that everything is not exactly the way you think it is. In fact, its usually the opposite.

    To compare Christianity to Greek mythology, is downright brick wall retarded. The Bible has been proven (by atheist scholars might I add) to be factually and historically correct.

    If you choose not to believe , then thats your choice. But to deny the facts like those above , well , thats just dumb.

  105. 179
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    religion is of the devil …personal relationship with Jesus Christ and His word is the way truth and life…

  106. 180
    Joey

    ballplay if you believe the bible to be historically accurate, then there’s no reason to continue talking to you. if it had been proven accurate by these so-called atheist scholars then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. this brings me to another gripe about your supposed god. why would he leave “the good news” so clouded with doubt? if he wants all to come to him then the historicity of the gospels or the bible as a whole would not even come into question. a god who could do anything could eliminate the possibility of his story being discredited. and it HAS been discredited to a large degree. one of the key elements in the story of the birth of christ has been proven to be made out of whole cloth. there never was a Roman census that required Joseph and Mary to be in Bethlehem during the time of the winter solstice. Christopher Hitchens, a vehement anti-theist (there’s a difference between an antitheist and an athiest) makes a beautiful argument that this fact could actually support the case for there being a man called Jesus of Nazareth because as Hitchens argues, if he is to be of the line of David why not just have him born in Jerusalem? Why the need to invent this imaginary census to explain his humble origin in Bethlehem and then Nazareth? yeah the bible’s been proven historically accurate ballpark. they even found the actual burning bush that Moses spoke to. and all those zombies from the crucifixion have been rounded up and sent to a military/scientific research facility. DUM DUM DUM!

    this had gotten to a point reaching civility but i guess that must’ve rubbed your nerves raw somehow. regardless get your “facts” straight. actually you there weren’t any facts for me to ignore in your last post. go back and read it. so next time introduce some facts and don’t worry about how old i am and whether i have kids or not. find some other straws to grasp. you’re not going to get to me by playing on my emotions. my emotions don’t dictate my belief system or lack thereof.

    crimson you can’t have personal relationships with imaginary friends ya nitwit.

  107. 181
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    yes and u can have a relationship with the creator of the universe if invited..and with the Heavenly Father …if you don’t – then you would be a fatherless bastard

  108. 182
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    and yes joey there will be a time of peace no evil…that is after the 7000 yrs of earth ….the purpose of the 7000 yrs of earth is to weeed out the unworthy by their own choices

  109. 183
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    if u got the balls – call out to the true god of the universe and command he show u truth….that is your homework assignment – an hour a day for the next 3 months and report back in if u r a lover of truth

  110. 184
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    no way out of the new world order since u r adamant about going to hell – u should work for the new world order illuminati fema etc

  111. 185
    Joey

    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing?
    Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing?
    Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God?
    -Epicurus

  112. 186
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    THE WORLD IS A TRIAL OF A 1000 YRS TO SEE WHO CHOOSES GOOD AND NOT EVIL ….U HAVE TO PROVE YOURSELF WORTHY TO MAKE IT TO THE WORLD WITHOUT EVIL….GOD IS BEING TRUE TO HIMSELF = PERFECT …PUNISHMENT ONLY AFTER A VESSEL HAS DONE EVIL WITH A FREE CHOICE

  113. 187
    Ballplay Indian

    Its about free will Joey. God isnt going to MAKE anyone choose Him. He wants a relationship with someone because they acknowledge and love Him.

    I must have been pretty close about you. A suggestion,,,,Spend less time researching atheists on the web. ITs not very educational.

  114. 188
    Ballplay Indian

    Oh, and as far as the census goes. That is historically proven as well. This was prophecied in Daniel too. As time went on , the need for empires to tax their peoples became a need ( prophecied by the statue vision in Daniel) This was one the first censuses of the Roman Empire. Hence the need for all the people to return to their city of birth where there records were kept. Joseph was born in Bethlehem , therefore , the need for him to return there. Bethlehem was the prophecied birthplace of Jesus.

    Im not real sure why I keep going back and forth with you, but there must be a reason. Soon this thread will go into the archives. So, if ut does, its been interesting debatiing you. Hope you see the truth soon.

  115. 189
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    no such thing as atheist-it is a big scam and dawkins is laughing all the way to the bank…ive never met ur mother therefore ur mother does not exist u were only raised to believe u had a mother

  116. 190
    Hunter Ford

    I’m very suspiscious, and often offended, by people who wear their religions on their sleeves.
    Too many sex scandals involving televangelists, and so-called conservative politicans literally caught with their pants down, have jaded me.

    I’m equally offended, and often enraged by wild-eyed super-liberal people or groups who want to discard every social value or tradition they believe threatens their particular, and narrow minded obsessions. “No more Nativity scenes on public property at Christmas!” and so on.

    Former Florida Gator quarterback Tim Tebow has become involved in a controversy because of his endorsement of a group called Focus on the Family. The Super Bowl ad featuring Tebow and his mom set of a paranoid volley of attacks by anti-abortionist radicals before it even aired. When it did air, it was a very dignified and unintrusive offering, simply asking folks to visit the website of Focus on the Family.

    Tebow may have damaged his ability to secure commercial endorsements if he is seen as too controversial. However, in the long run, I believe he’ll be better off. And if he chooses to use his celebrity status to advocate Christian ideals, more power to him.

    Tebow is a refreshing presence at a time when the most famous athlete of the past decade is wrapped up in a sex scandal. And when many other high-profile athletes are making news for unlawfull gun possession charges and a long list of other dirty laundry.

    I can’t think of too many athletes, in their prime, who have taken on a seriously divisive social or poltical cause. One person comes to mind more than any other.

    Muhamad Ali, lost his heavy-weight title in the late 1960s because of his anti-Vietnam stance. Ali was also embroiled in racial and religious conflicts of his time. Aside from Ali, I can’t think of too many other athletes who used their bully pulpit of celebrity to advocate serious political or social views. Former Cleveland Browns great Jim Brown, perhaps fit the mold, but his activisim seemed to come more after his playing days. Maybe I’m not old enough to remember more, and maybe times have just changed.

    I also remember that Joe Namath had a run-in with the NFL over his involvment in a nightclub in New York City called Batchelor’s Three. Joe tearfully retired from the NFL after being asked to give up his interest. He stood up for his rights to pursue outside business interests I guess. But that was all straightened out rather quickly.

    The extent of Tebow’s advocacy on anything, is hardly comparable at this time to somebody like Ali. It’s certainly different from the Namath situation. And I haven’t heard Tebow’s response to criticism of Focus on the Family. He seems to be “focusing” more on improving his passing skills to suit the NFL.

    I support and admire Tebow for using his platform to promote something he believes in; The sanctity of life and the importance of the family, from what I gather. It will be interesting to see how far he would be willing to go in continuing that advocacy or if he will tone it down or drop it altogether.

    Other athletes like Curt Warner for instance, openly share their Christian views. Not many/or any, I’m aware of delve into the really contentious political/social issues.

    I wonder if it is a coincidence that Tebow is facing serious scrutiny of his athletic ability, right now, at this time?

    Cany anybody really question the credentials of someone who won a Heisman trophy, contended for three Heismans, and passed for more than 400 yards in a BCS bowl game two months ago?

  117. 193
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    HEY FOOL – IT IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AND YOU – CHRISTIANS CALLED OR SO-CALLED HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU

  118. 194
    InTheKnow72

    Joey likes to hear himself talk, and I do too. He has no joy, no peace and no reason for living, and I do. I feel better about myself already. Thanks Joey!

  119. 195
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    FOR BALANCE…I WILL TAKE PRIDE IN HAVING THE MOST FOOLS TO THROW INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE ON JUDGEMENT DAY BUT ALSO WINNING THE MOST SOULS TO JESUS AS WELL

  120. 196
    Ballplay Indian

    Hammah, for the love man, shut the heck up. Your not helping anything. You are helping to make the case for people like Joey.

    As far as the whole televangelist, Swaggert, Hinn, Baker, etc deals go. The Bible plainly tells us of false prophets, how to spot them, and to be on guard for them. This should catch no one unaware. Especially not Christians.

    As far as Tebow goes, Hunter, if you or anyone else puts faith into Tim Tebow, you WILL ger let down. Tebow will screw up, just like everyone else. The thing that we have to understand is that he is human, and by the grace of God , he will be restored just as we are.

    I can promise you Tim T. is facing scrutiny that wouldnt otherwise be at his doorstep if he were not trying his best to further the cause of Christ. The Bible plainly tells us that will happen. That we will suffer because He suffered. That he will endure trials as Jesus did.

    As far as Christians wearing their religion on their sleeves, if your a true follower of Jesus, you couldnt hide it if you had to. It will show. And it SHOULD show in EVERYTHING you do. Its who you ARE…Not just what you say.

  121. 197
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    JOE NAMATH AGREED TO GIVE UP HIS INTEREST IN THE Biii AND RIGHTFULLY SO – KNOWN MAFIA HAD MADE THAT THEIR HANGOUT

  122. 198
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    SAINTS WIN THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS AND SUPER BOWL AND NO MAJOR INCIDENCES…MARYLAND WINS A REG CONFERENCE GAME IN A SPORT WHERE THE REG SEASON IS WORTHLESS AND THEY HAVE A RIOT

  123. 200
    Joey

    finally someone who brings at least a modicum of civility to the table. and i must point the finger at myself for my rhetoric is was antagonizing at times to say the least. but let’s delve into this Hunter. first of all, and i believe i mentioned this in one of the earlier posts, i was pleasantly suprised that the Tebow commerical was what it was: apolitical, not preachy, etc. but you made a statement that really baffles me in light of the rest of your seemingly cogent post.

    “Cany anybody really question the credentials of someone who won a Heisman trophy, contended for three Heismans, and passed for more than 400 yards in a BCS bowl game two months ago?”

    i’m sure this must be a mistake. and i’m equally sure you’ll deny what i’m about to say but essentially what you’re implying is that because Tebow is a superb athelete that somehow gives him a special credibility on issues of morality and what a woman should do with her unborn child. i hope it isn’t necessary to point out the obvious nonsense in this but just in case, it’s fucking ridiculous. Tim Tebow’s football don’t make him (or his mother i might add) any more qualified to advise potential mothers on what they should or should not do with their body. Nor does it qualify him to make any moral pronouncements OF ANY KIND.

    we have become a society of celebrity worshippers and while i don’t think being an athelete or a movie star or musician disqualifies a person from having insight it damn sure doesn’t insure that they have it to give to others. and once again let me give the disclaimer: THIS COUNTS FOR MEMBERS OF ALL PARTIES, RELIGIONS, PHILOSOPHIES, ETC. now if you agree with Tebow, good for you. but the issue that touched off my tirade was not the superbowl commercial. it was whether or not the NCAA should be a forum for a religious institution to push it’s agenda. i do not think it does. now as far as i now the NCAA is a private organization so if it chose to allow focus on the family to do whatever it wanted i think it would have every constitutional right to do so. THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT SHOULD. and the reason the NCAA did not allow the banner to remain on the site is sound. it’s the same reason it wouldn’t allow some other religion to endorse itself on the NCAA website: because it would offend or exclude a large percentage of the sports community who do not believe what these people belive. can you imagine the outcry from the christian community if, let’s say the church of satan paid for a banner to be placed on the NCAA website?

    i admire Tebow’s conviction even though i disagree with it. i admire Ali’s stance on Vietnam. hell i actually agree with that one but it doesn’t mean that the argument had any more or less credence because of who the messenger was.

    Ballplay, i wish i could say that it’s been enlightening. it hasn’t. your statement about the so-called census is an out and out lie. you cannot cite the bible as a source for it’s own validity.

    and you still haven’t answered a single philosophical challenge i threw down. once again to the point of free will. if god set down the rules of the universe. then god created the rule which made free will and suffering a package deal. ONCE AGAIN. IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE CAN PROVIDE FREE WILL AND ELIMINATE SUFFERING AND EVIL. OTHERWISE HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT. HE IS BOUND BY THE LAW WHICH ACCORDING TO YOU STATES THAT SUFFERING AND PAIN MUST COINCIDE WITH FREE WILL.

    and intheknow72 please tell me your dna is not loose in the world. if it is for the love of everything that IS good and decent euthanize it immediately.

    this has been my rant.

    “I was not; I have been; I am not; I do not mind.”

  124. 201
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    HE DOES NOT ELIMINATE SUFFERING/EVIL – HE USES IT AS A TEST TO SEE WHO WILL BE WORTHY TO LIVE IN A WORLD WITHOUT SUFFERING AND EVIL…I WAS INVITED AND ACCEPTED THE INVITATION – SO FOR TRILLION PLUS YRS I WILL LIVE IN A SYSYTEM OF NO EVIL NO PAIN.

  125. 202
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    AND NEVER EXPECT ANY CHURCH TO LEAD U INTO TRUTH…99.99999% OF CHURCHES TEACH SERIOUS ERROR…BE A LOVER OF TRUTH AND COMMAND THE TRUE LIVING GOD TO LEAD U INTO ALL TRUTH …U R RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE TO KNOW THE TRUTH…

  126. 204
    Ballplay Indian

    Joey….What exactly have you proven ? Only thing I see is links to leftist atheist hacks who have a boner to discredit every thing about Chrisrianity, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly in Christianities favor.

    As far as bogus prophecy. Did you look up the prophecies of King Cyrus in Daniel and Isaiah ? The evidence is proven and authentic, has stood the test of all recorded history, and has much more credence than anything you have offered. There are non christian documents to back it up. I.E. the Cyrus cylinder. (bing it).

    No matter if Jesus Christ Himself split the sky came into your office, house , whatever, and appeared to you i the flesh, you probably would still stand in rebellion to the God who creatd you. Thats how ignorant and clouded your mind is.

    YOu just aint gonna believe it until God puts you into a place like He did king Nebuchadnezzar. Hope that doesnt happen to you.

    Look and see where Islam started. Do you even know that one ? For someone who has had Christianity “shoved down their throat” you sure dont know much about the scriptures. Read about Jacob and Esau. Thats where Islam started.

    But hey, go ahead with your blanket statements , and throw up a link to another idiot, and say, “SEE !!!” Dr. (fill in the blank) says it FALSE !!!!””

    At least come up with an original arguement substantiated by fact, not opinion. As far as that goes , Ive smoked you in that regard.

    As far as God creating evil. Not so. Yes , he did create Lucifer. Scripture says Lucifer concieved eevil in his own heart. Is that GOds fault ? No. Did He know that it would happen ? Yes. You have the same choice Satan did. To follow or not to follow. He made the provision for you, but you rebel against it ignorantly.

  127. 205
    Ballplay Indian

    Oh, Cyrus was prophecied by NAME about 600 years before he had Jerusalem reboult. Go ahed and say ” It was wrtten after the fact” …Real great ( and unsubstantiated) rebuttal.

  128. 206
    Ballplay Indian

    LUKE CH 2 VS 1-5. That is the taxation scripture. Census was taken in each village then. Thats where the records were kept.

    This was at the begining of the taxation of the Roman empire. The image of the statue in Daniel 2 refered to the wealth of kingdoms and who those kingdoms were. With each kingdom leading to the Roman Empire being less wealthy (clay and iron). Therefore the need for taxation.

    Am I still a liar?

    Are you going to argue that Romans didnt tax their people ?

    Are you going to say that the Babylonians did ?

    This is all fact. The secular world has proven the authenticity of these facts. To argue them is foolish.

    The only thing that you can do is just not believe the truth. Wich, is what you are doing. Truth in the word of God, and truth in secular history.\

    But under your blanket of “they wrote it after it happened ” its all O.K. to you.

    Explain the dead seas scrolls and countless other things like them that have been uearthed and are on display for the public.

  129. 207
    CRIMSON HAMMAH - THE CHOSEN ONE

    JOEY ALREADY KNOWS GOD EXISTS AND THE BIBLE IS 99% ACCURATE….THE ISSUE IS ATTEMPTED SELF DELUSION – BECAUSE HE REFUSES TO BOW DOWN TO GOD OTHER THAN HIMSELF – WHICH MAKES HIM A AN UNWITTING TOOL FOR SATAN

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