Kevin Scarbinsky of the Birmingham News reports, “200 student-athletes were involved in the four years the textbook case covers.”
Is this accurate?
We don’t know thanks to the suspicious and likely illegal way the University has circumvented the public records law. There is no excuse for hiding from the taxpayers information necessary to hold public institutions accountable.
Truth (or sunlight as the crusaders for public access like to say) is a great disinfectant; it is like Malachi’s refiner’s fire, which purges away corruption, or at the very least highlights incompetence.
If the 200 charge is true, it sure makes the athletic department look even more incompetent than usual. And that is saying something for Alabama.
44 thoughts on “Report: 200 athletes involved in textbook case”
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You are the definition of a hypocrite……Kinda like you had finebaum as a source for your speculative article on Tommy ? Get a life.
I’m confused. How is being critical of the University hypocritical?
By being critical of Scarbinskys article for a lack of evidence and proof. Which seems to be a patern for you when someone is saying something negative about Alabama. Then you do the very thing you are griping about when you are speaking about Auburn. Like in the article below this one….
But I am guilty of not reading the second half of the article. I just assumed that it would be the same as the rest of the articles youve written. My bad.
I’m not being critical for lack of evidence. The truth is the University could have made Scarbinsky’s article unnecessary if it had provided the information. Even IF Scarbinsky’s article were false, we wouldn’t know because of the secrecy UA has pursued in this case.
For the record, I’m assuming Scarbinsky’s number is likely accurate.
Cappy, i wanted to come on here and give you my “au version” of this matter but you make very good points. The truth is, nobody knows what to believe. Like you said, alabama officials have been very close to the vest on this so “i” dont know what to think. We all know that scarbuttsky is a slimebaum wanna-be so who knows if he’s a liar or not. Only time will tell. WAR EAGLE!!!!!!!
14Trooper, everyone of you barners think that someone is a liar, yet Auburn fans have been enthralled with conspiracy theories and the rumor mill. Just take a look at your boards (atanybarnersite.com), and you’ll find at least 20 or more posts dedicated to Alabama rumors. It usually starts off like this, “Now I’m not for certain, but I’ve got a source that knows a guy that’s friends with an Alabama booster, and he said…” Give me a break and get a life. If you want to talk football, talk football. It’s proof that Auburn fans have nothing better to do than start sh*t with your presence here. After all, this is an Alabama fan site. If you’re not a fan (which I think you’re a closet fan obsessed with the winning tradition that is The University of Alabama), then why are you here? Don’t you have a cow to milk? A dog to neuter? A cat to spay? Oh wait, maybe you got a sociology degree. Don’t you have a bathroom to clean?
Bamaclit……I am here for the sole purpose of starting crap. that is it. Never misunderstand that.
And since your all about Bama, dont you guys have another Bernie Madoff to mentor ? ? ? He learned from the best intitute on cheating that has ever been. But much like his mentors, he got caught. Enjoy your sanctions. BWAAHAHAHHAHAHHA !!!!
Cap , suppose there were 200 cases. With an average of 3 books per student 9 speculation, I know) and an average book price of $75.00, (thats probably conservative), thats about $45,000 of books. That is borderline felony stuff. There is no FREEKIN way that that kind of money goes out without a higher up not knowing about it. If a higher up didnt know, thats even worse. Tuscaloosa is runnin like a well oiled machine aint it ?
Auburn is a joke, enjoy your 36-0 loss. Enjoy it again when you get your ass gift wrapped and handed to you this year, and the next, and the next. Just curious, what are you referring to as cheating? Care to elaborate? Terry Bowden type cheating, or Pat Dye type cheating. Or Tuberville cheating? Sit back and enjoy the ride douche bag. Come November (if a tornado hasn’t wiped out your trailer and 9 kids in the above ground swimming pool), it will be two in a row.
Those numbers are likely reasonable. The textbook number might be a little high, but it is a good figure based on the absurd prices of some textbooks (for one class I spent no more than $22 for textbooks, and for another I spent well over $75.)
Here is the crazy issue. The books issued to scholarship athletes were turned back in at the end of the term. It makes it much harder to compute the actual damages caused by the students. It was more like renting the book than buying it.
As for the higherups, I tend to believe they were CLUELESS. Which is more damnable than if they did know (at least in my opinion.) It took a bookstore clerk to say, WTF, based on one scholar-athlete’s bookstore account. It was apparently a really really BIG charge that alerted the bookstore to the problem.
Another reason I don’t believe that administrators knew was simply the few number of football players involved. If you were trying to give players a benefit, I can assure you, football players would get preference over the women’s track team.
I see your point. But someone had to clear the deal. You just dont show up and get free books. Someone is to blame. And I believe , the higher up it goes, the stiffer the sanctions.
The deal is cleared by the transaction clerk. When I was in college, my girlfriend had a scholarship that paid for her books. She’d go to the bookstore, sign a paper and go get the books, return to the counter and sign a form.
Half the time, I don’t think the clerk even read the booklist for the class.
Now I don’t know what the policies are for athletes at Alabama, but in most cases at most universities the financial aid office handles all the paperwork after bookstore purchases. (If someone with more experience in financial aid wants to chime in, please do!)
That’s why I feel like the problem was more one of absolute incompetence rather than intentional violations. Alabama’s athletic department didn’t monitor its aid program to make sure everything was done according to the letter of the law. That annoys me. And I think the secrecy is designed to keep fans in the dark about how incompetent things continue to be in Tuscaloosa’s entrenched bureaucracy.
I think you’ve been listening to one too damn many of the Barns conspiracy theories! If you have any kind of valuable experience with the myriad things that go on at a major corporation, then you would know that things slip through the cracks and not always intentionally or with wrong intent. And there’s not a damn thing you can do about it without implementing programs that cost a hell of a lot more than than what slips through the cracks. $45,000 to the UA annual budget is like your kid taking an extra popcicle out of the freezer. It would be relatively invisible! Cap I’m not sure I like your insinuations. Is this an Alabama blog or a damn Barner blog? Of all the douchbags to be basing a serious article on, that Barner butt sucker Scarbuttsky is one of the worst! He’s not beyond starting his own Gadsden fairy tale! I don’t like that you are stroking the idea that Bama’s administration is involved in some deep dark sordid coverup in this stupid textbook mess. All you’re doing is feeding the fertile cesspools that the Barners use for minds. I also don’t like the demand you make on Alabama for inside information and calling them criminals for not releasing it. This is precisely why in my opinion journalists and reporters are garbage! They think their fu**ing right to know is more important than whomever’s right to privacy. And I don’t care if Bama is a public institution. Screw the Facist, Socialist laws that have ruptured this country’s freedom and privacy! Who do you think you are that your right to know outweighs a Billion dollar a year university’s right to handle a potentially damaging situation in the manner that they see fit. They know a hell of a lot more about what’s going on than you do, and they are going to do their best to stop the bleeding as best they can; and without the potentially harmful input from outsider know-it-all, busybodies. The BS you demand of the Bama administration is an invasion no different than that of the P.O.S. paparazzi. You both use Facist Federal Laws to dick with what you have no right to dick with. I can’t believe you made two posts in the same day. One ripping the Barn for their conspiracies against Bama, and the other ripping Bama for conspiracies against the public. What a crock of s**t! What’s next? RTR!
Egg. You are an idiot. You go on rants that have no basis. I for one am a law abiding tax paying citizen , and do not like YOUR accusations. 45,000 is a lot of money END OF STORY. I dont give a crap how big your budget is. That is MY dam money being wasted. Screw the alma matter and colors crap. its a waste of friggin money. And it aint right. “Slippin through da cracks” is the whole problem. 45k should never slip throught hte cracks. Your too dam blinded by crimson to see it. There is o excuse for it. To take up for University on a deal were they are CLEARLY in the wrong, shows your ingnorance.
You see dude. That is a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY….They dam sure should be made to disclose any and everything about this deal. You see , this ‘conspiricy” as you like to call it differs in a big way from a booster tyoe conspiricy. ITS OUR MONEY THEY ARE WASTING.
You have to be a dam liberal. There is no other explanation for you to justify this gross neglect of tax money.
bamaclt, dont bging a knife to a gunfight redneck. Why dont you come on back so we can finish this conversation. Pathetic. What did i say that angered you? You need to read my post again before making those “little” remarks. Piece of backwood, goat kissing, living on welfare gutter trash. You better strap your boots up if you want to go toe to toe with me. Post quick i got work to do. WAH WAH WAHMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAR EAGLE!!!
au a joke, dont pay ant attention to EGG. He’s just mad that his school is about to be irrelevant again. He teies to talk like he’s a political officer or something. When all he’s doing is reading somebody elses story and biting quotes. WAR EAGLE BROTHER!!
If your worried about 45000 tax dollars from loose ends at Alabama of which your taxes probably amounted $.03, then you best be checking that damn cow college over in East Alabama. That dysfunctional joke of an administration you have there probably misappropriates 45000 every week! Better yet, check into the millions of misappropriations by your Federal, State and local governments. See how far that gets you! I was asking cap about corporate experience, but since you stuck your nose into something you obviously know nothing about, then I’ll baptise you! In big corporate business, shit happens. Can’t stop it until after the fact. Then some other shits gonna happen somewhere else. Fact of life. You can’t stop it. Nobody can. Too many things going on. Can’t monitor 100%, 100% of the time. Imposible. Because you don’t know, then It’s too difficult to explain on a blog post. Bama stopped the bleeding and put in place safeguards against the same problem in the future. That’s all that’s necessary. And let me tell you something about that public institution and your tax money bullshit. Bama is a business and a very profitable business. The money they make on their athletic programs, their logo endorsments, their tv contracts and student tuition just completely dwarfs any public funds they receive. Therefore just what percentage of their private information do you think you’re entitled too. If the information you want comes from a demand that it’s a public institution, but the public money is only 10% of the budget, you think they’re going to release sensitive information that could endanger the 90% of their own money? Not in your lifetime Bub! Go harass your own pathetic school and leave the big things to the big boys! RTR!
Egg…….That applies to anything that is a gov. entity. Universities , road crews, local municipalities, etc. What makes you assume that I dont know about business ? I run a business. While it may not be even close to the scale the U of A is at. The same principles apply. Let ME tell YOU something. With a mindset like yours nothing will improve. EVER. Im dam glad yoo dont represent me in Mintgomery, we have enough people like you down there. And your wrong, there is something that could stop it. Its called accountability. Check into it. I wasnt singling out the U of A. ITs just sad to see them go the route the rest of the state has.
And it can be done. The Etowah Co. Board of Ed. is a model on the way a school system should be run. Why ? They are accountable.
And I am aware that the U is a profitable business. But are you telling me that hte funds appropriated for textbooks come from the athletic profits ? I doubt it.
14 Trooper or Trooper 14 or whatever the hell you call yourself today as you keep changing your name. What the hell is your problem? Are you dyslexic or schizophrenic or just plain stupid? And exactly who the hell are you talking too, or do you even know. You OD on Thorazine there at Bryce or what? You jump on somebody else for something I said, and jump on me for something somebody else said! What a tard. What’s a Trooper 14 anyway dude? You been to Nam or Iraq? ODed on Agent Orange or Nerve Gas dude? You talk like someone who overstayed his welcome in a foreign war. Just what the hell sent you over here anyway. Couldn’t communicate with the other tards on a Barner blog? Is that why you had to ask Cap about secondary violations? Couldn’t find anyone conscious at a Barner blog. Oh well, you’re irrelevant anyway! RTR!
Ok BP, truce! I’m tired of arguing. Peace Bro. RTR!
And the most obvious question is:
How would Scarbinsky know for sure?
Second question.
Since the Football Program reported it to the NCAA, suspended the few players involved and did not put them back on the field until they were cleared by the NCAA? How bad could the damage be to the football program?
Jesus, there was no athletic advantage gained by this whatsoever. So why should Bama forfeit anything?
Third Question….
Did alabama report themselves for this infraction?
Scarbuttsky hardly published breaking news. The 200 figure was being passed around early last year. It was one of those ‘I heard that somebody heard that somebody saw the uncensored documents. You know how that goes. They’re talking about vacating participation. And I don’t recall any athletes being punished except in football. That leads me to believe this thing may have been under negotiation for a lot longer than the public has been made aware of. I think that’s why CNS suspended the players – to keep from having to vacate possible wins. You know, at that time Bama was doing good. Nobody would have guessed there would be 6 losses and a La-Monroe that year. Suspending those Shula players just may have been the thing that caused the dissention that made the team fall apart. Whatever, now that Fla. St. and Memphis are off the calendar for a while, they’re saying we may hear something next week. I’m still thinking sanctions against the university in general and the offending sports in particular. But because of footballs rush to put it right, I think they will get a slap on the wrist. Much to the chagrin of the rest of the SEC! RTR!
To be honest, I really dont care what happens to UAT. Whether they get bowl games taken away, TV rights (although it would be funny if the only game rednecks could watch was the A day game on ESPN), or nothing.
I think the textbook scandal thing is and has been blown out of proportion because we are in the hot month of June with nothing else to do but argue about nothing.
I will tell you that I hate all the retarded, mullet, mustache, elevated tatoo-tooth ratio, UA redneck fans more than most, but I dont hate the Univ of AL. I think that I want a UAT rednecks without any reasons to whine after AU hands their tail to them in recruiting this year and hopefully on the field this year as well.
Finescum has a “package”, Gadsden rumors, textbook scandals, Shane and Chette Williams love-hate affair, and whatever else will fuel controversy. I think it was the loser OC Terry Franklin saying he hated to pray with the other AU coaches on the Friday Finescum show. It is ridiculous. CTT ran a pretty clean program, however you see what that got him.
As for the UA bloggers here, I agree let the NCAA slap your wrist, fine by me and lets get on with it. One caveat, however, dont accuse AU of cheating when we havent been looking down the NCAA howitzer cannon since 92. Try looking in the mirror and dont throw rocks when you live in a glass trailer.
BLOW TIDE!
It’s my understanding that the bookstore clerk alerted her superiors and in turn it passed uphill to administration which made the decision to self-report it. Bamahate, this is an Alabama blog. We don’t give a damn what you think. If you hate us so much then go back to your tards on a Barner blog. A Barner calling us mullets? How unique. Wonder how many Barners have eaten or tossed mullets. I know of 3 for damn sure. My brothers and sister! Hope you’re gonna hold your breath waiting on the Barn to out recruit us and beat us this year. There’ll be one less cow humper on this blog! Oh, and don’t get all giddy over your new LB recruit. It had nothing to do with BCW or beating Bama. This guy was born with an orange and blue penis. You beat out Florida, Fla. St. and California, Not Bama. And his HS coach’s brother is Director of Football relations at the Barn. BCW may have kept him away from Florida, but he was never going to Bama in the first place. Besides, he never would have started at Bama. We’re loaded at LB and he would be far and away the lowest rated LB on the team. Go back to your pasture and tip some more cows dude! RTR!
E.G White Says:
June 9th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Scarbuttsky hardly published breaking news. The 200 figure was being passed around early last year.
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Scarb is the new Phillip Marshall. he tries to claim he is unbiased but he is Pat Dye’s puppet. He has to either be printing something good ABOUT Auburn or BAD about Bama.
Told yall that a bammer would throw out the “we didnt want him anyhow” excuse. Thanks egg.
Its good to see that the rest of your family has sense egg !! What happened to you ?
And tmc1…The overall violation prabably wouldnt be a big deal at all. I would think that your recent track record will affect the severity of the sanctions more than anything. Beielve it or not, that wasnt a flame. Just my opinion.
CAn someone(CAP)please tell me exactly what happened with the textbooks to make it a scandel? I have read so much and still I am not quite sure what was done that was wrong? Thanks
Omni, at any other school it wouldn’t have been enough to be a scandle. They would have self reported and imposed their own sanctions and that would have been it. The so called scandle and the danger of this situation is that ever so small, the football team WAS involved and because of the football program, Bama was still serving probation. That is grounds for sanctions for lack of institutional control during a probationary period. Serious sh*t if they want to push it. As for the textbooks, lax control allowed creative students to figure out they could get more than their share of books, at the rate of about 200 measly dollars each over about a 4 year period. Wow! What a crime! In any other life they would simply fire the bookstore employees who damn well should have known what was happening. What’s more, anyone who checked out the extra books would also have to return them at the end of the course, or pay back the University. So the question is where is the gain? The whole mess is overblown because of Bama’s status as a repeat offender. Just hope the 6 who wrote the sanctions for this didn’t have an axe to grind against Bama. One is from U. of Miami who has no love lost for Bama or CNS. One is from Notre Dame. One from CUSA. One from MEAC, One from Central Michigan, and one is a Missouri sports atty. Strange group. Here’s holding my breath. RTR!
BP, I didn’t say we didn’t want him. Even though his Scout and Rivals rankings of 25th and 28th would be the lowest LB on the team since CNS arrived, that’s still very good! And Bama did offer him. They just didn’t pursue him because of his preferences. As for what happened to me. I’m the oldest, smartest, most talented and I insisted on a real education. Can’t speak for them. They’re losers. Damn glad I don’t have to listen to their BS anymore! 36-0! LMFAO! RTR!
E.G. thx for trying but you really did not answer my question, you managed to bash a few peeps (thats kewl) but what really happened still escapes me…..
Like what was done?
That’s the problem Omni! Nobody can give you the answer that you seek. Alabama has kept the lid on the only information that could answer your question. If anybody does answer you, it’s pure speculation because nobody outside of UA administration and the NZAA knows. That’s what Cap is so upset about. But I look at it differently. 1. What possible good would it do for the world to know all the intricate details of this case? The answer – absolutely none! 2. Cap want’s it released under public info act. But 90% of UA’s budget and income is from sources other than public funding. In my opinion that gives them the right to do damage control the way they see fit to protect their much, much larger interests. 3. UA knows all the details, knows how the negotiations with the NZAA went. They have a much more complete idea of how this should be handled than any reporter or anyone in the public sector. I’m sure they feel that opening the files to the public could do no good, and probably some real harm. You know how bullshit flys on the internet nowdays. 4. I’m content with the way it’s being handled, and your question may never be answered in detail. Sorry. RTR!
One other thing. It’s just my opinion, but I don’t think Alabama has invested 6.5 million dollars a year on new top of the line football and basketball coaches and God knows how much on BDS expansion, only to sit back and let the Nazi’s put unfair and crippling sanctions on us over something as stupid as textbooks. Bama has fought them and won before, and in the case of irrational sanction’s I think we would be obliged to fight them again. If something stupid comes down the pipe I believe you can look for an appeal and if no relief, a long and nasty court battle! Hope the facist bastards have more sense than that! RTR!
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the penalties youve recieved lately have been harsh because the attitude you are currently displaying is the same that the administration has shown ? Neither Bama or Auburn are above the rules. And by your own admission , you dont really even know what happened, and dont WANT to know. Soooo how can you already say that the penalty you havent even recieved,,,,,on an infraction you dont even know anything about,,,,can be be unjust ?
Ohhhhh ……Quickly egg, go to the emergency room. you are showing symptoms of WADS !!!
Don’t know if you’ll get an answer from Cap or not. He hasn’t been heard from since noon yesterday. Dunno, maybe I hurt his feelings by kinda calling him a traitor. RTR!
Ok I maybe it cant but I am gonna try and ask the question a different way and if its the same answer then kewl
OF the 200 so said students what did one do to cause this investigation??
Thanks for being patient I am just wanting to know 🙂
You’re putting words in my mouth again. I didn’t make any comparisons of irrational penalties vs. infractions. Everything I said is all relative to whatever the actual infraction was. However, you can pretty much bet that UA would have recomended something more severe than suspending a few players for a few games if the infraction was more serious than we’re thinking. They certainly would have wanted to appease the NCAA before the hammer fell! You can take it from there. As for our attitude. It is well justified. They tried to slam us after their fool investigation found us guilty of the Auburn booster conspiracy to pay Gene Jelks! We had to fight them to clear that sh*t and they’ve had a hard on for us ever since. What the hell do you expect? That fly-by-night crap they do for investigations doesn’t deserve any respect. Then we proved no direct University involvement in Albert Means, and they still plastered us because of the independant actions of boosters. Doesn’t matter if we knew the boosters were planning it or not. We don’t mandate boosters actions. They’re grown men with lots of money. Some of them do whatever the hell they want! The NCAA fu*k*rs are completely random and without accountability. If you want respect, you have tn earn it. RTR!
I see what your saying……Three letters for you egg…U.S.C. they will never investigate the Reggie Bush deal. And that aint right.
Once again Omni that can only be answered in the context of what was released to the press. Maybe that’s enough, and then again maybe it’s dancing around the edeges. But apparently a female track athlete either by accident or by design, found that because of the system that was in place at the time, she was able to demand more free textbooks than she was allowed. Once she discovered this loophole and told some of her friends on the track team, it spread like wildfire. Bama is contending that only the athletes that actually decieved the University and checked out the books should be punished. They contend that most of the alleged 200 only recieved the books from their friends and weren’t aware of the illegal manner in which they were acquired. Who knows? So what the one person supposedly did is take advantage of a loophole to ‘steal’ text books and then form a conspiracy with other students to continue to defraud the University. The absurdity of the situation is – if this is the way it went down, then the students who actually checked the books out are on record and are responsible for either returning the books or paying for them! Therefore no harm – no foul! Once again, who knows. To get the whole story, at least their version of it you’ll have to wait for the NCAA to release their documents. Maybe we ought to have a public hanging of the little bitch that started the whole thing and leave it at that! RTR!
Yeah, and Bushes family reportedly recieved $400,000. Double what Means was going to recieve. And there were other athletes too. Guess it costs more to live in California than in Alabama! LOL! Not hard to figure why Lame Kitten thumbs his nose at the NCAA. He learned all his tricks at U.S.C.! RTR!
Thx EG I see what you mean