Tide still the King

By Shane from Centerpoint
Most reasonable SEC football fans would agree that the true measure of a team’s dominance over its conference foes can’t be judged accurately unless the overall record is used as the primary source. The historic records display the truth without spin. There is one team that holds a winning record over every single conference opponent. There is only one “bell cow” who was the first to bring national prestige and respect to Southern football. In fact there is only one team in the SEC worthy of being defined as a traditional national power. That team is the University of Alabama.

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The Birmingham News recently took a look at the all-time best of the SEC. The information they compiled on the football programs provides an astoundingly stark view of the evidence that confirms the Crimson Tide’s ownership of the league.

In order to clarify and remind those SEC fans who have forgotten where their teams stand in their quest to catch and pass Alabama on the field, I will list the won-loss records to date:

Alabama 38 Auburn 33 (AU – 5 games behind)
Alabama 43 LSU 23 (LSU – 20 games behind)
Alabama 35 Georgia 25 (Georgia – 10 games behind)
Alabama 45 Tennessee 38 (Tennessee – 7 games behind)
Alabama 20 Florida 13 (Florida – 7 games behind)
Alabama 10 Arkansas 8 wins (Arkansas – 2 games behind)
Alabama 33 Kentucky 2 (Kentucky – 31 games behind)
Alabama 44 Ole Miss 9 (Ole Miss – 35 games behind)
Alabama 10 South Carolina 3 (South Carolina – 7 games behind)
Alabama 59 Vanderbilt 19 (Vanderbilt – 40 games behind)
Alabama 71 Mississippi State 18 ( Mississippi State – 53 games behind)

No other SEC school can boast a winning record against every conference opponent or come close to matching Alabama’s (NCAA record) number of bowl appearances (54), bowl victories (31), or 10-win seasons (28).

Alabama’s 12 national championships put them in the stratosphere compared to the rest of the earth-bound conference teams.

In fact The Birmingham News’ 75th anniversary “best of” edition placed the Crimson Tide so far ahead of the rest of the pack that no team could ever match Alabama’s accomplishments. According to their measurements, the Tide leads the second place teams (Tennessee and LSU) by 8 points. Florida and Georgia trail by 14 points. Ole Miss and Auburn stand a distant 17 points down the chart. The final scores for Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Kentucky, South Carolina and Mississippi State aren’t worth mentioning.

The national titles, SEC titles, AP first team All-Americans, Top 25 rankings in the final poll, NFL first-round draft picks, NFL Hall of Fame honorees, and bowl accomplishments – all serve as proof that Alabama has, without question, the best football program in the history of the Southeastern conference.

The hiring of Nick Saban combined with a fully-stocked Alabama football team will undoubtedly make it difficult, if not impossible, for the rest of the SEC to chase down the King. The rest of the best in the SEC aren’t going anywhere, but they’d better get prepared because the Crimson Tide is about to embark on another stellar run, and it will happen quickly with Saban at the helm. Sometime in the near future the Tide will rightfully take its place atop the SEC once again.

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Editor’s note: We are planning previews/scouting reports/analysis on all of Alabama’s 2008 games. We are also offering the preview as a PDF download if you would prefer reading it in a more attractive format online or to print it out for offline reading. You can get the three page downloadable PDF for $1.99 by clicking here.

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116 Comments

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  1. 1
    david

    History and tradition. The same thing every Bama football fan falls back on when discussing the here and now. Why not go back the past 25 years or 10 years and see how the Crimson Tide stack up against the rest of the SEC?

  2. 2
    capstonereport

    Why the past 10 or 25? Isn’t that just an arbitrary timeline?

    If the overall records don’t matter….why even keep them?

  3. 3
    david

    Things change over time and nobody outside of Tuscaloosa would consider Alabama the king of anything over the past 20 years except for coaching turmoil and problems with the NCAA. Let’s say 20 years because that is the average age of football players in college.

  4. 5
    david

    Here is what I have over the past 20 years:
    Alabama 8 Auburn 12
    Alabama 10 LSU 10
    Alabama 3 Florida 7
    Alabama 9 Tennessee 11
    Alabama 30 Biggest Rivals 40 for a winning percentage of 42%
    Not bad against tough teams but certainly not the King!

  5. 6
    Pudge

    Finally, Shane talks about his own team and not Auburn. For such a self confessed expert on Alabama football, why do you spend so much time on worrying and writing about Auburn. I think I smell envy.

  6. 7
    Warbird

    I think I hear a Janet Jackson song warming up…”What have you done for me lately, oooooooooh yeah”!

    Keep living in the past Shane for Brains and that is where you’ll stay…in the past! Bell cow? More like a dairy cow. Everybody’s been milking the Tide lately, even La Mo!

    Fear the Toes!

  7. 8
    sixdownnow7

    Shane,
    A lot a good that dominance has done Bama lately.

    Since level playing fields were established and that Holy Cow image was washed away by the NCAA, Bama has been exactly what it always should have been AVERAGE!

    50 years plus of out right cheating along with making the rules and extorting the NCAA to bring down their enemies has finally caught up with the Criminal Tide!

    Only a few living Bama fans were part of thoughs “tainted” glory days. Today’s Bama fan is arogant, spoiled by the past and in no way deserving of this “Rightful Place in College Football”!

    Bama will have its day every now and then and no one can take the 60’s and 70’s away, but Bama is average at best and in my opinion is going to remain there for a good long time!

    Congratulations for living in the past. It gives Auburn just enough motivation to continue this streak until the series is even and then surpassed. It’s going to be a great event and I am going to live long enough to see it happen.

  8. 9
    Coma Guy

    After my nice long sleep it is nice to see that some things never change. Auburn fans are still jealous of Bama. And still spend most of there time trying to prove that Auburn is better.
    Auburn vs. Bama is like

    Baylor vs. Texas

  9. 10
    FinebaumJunkie

    When I first began to read this article, I thought I was reading The First Book of Moses,Genesis. I am well aware of the 420 national titles that sit in a case like a wild west saloon spittoon, but give me a break. As I continued to read, my 11 year old daughter came over to me and asked me what I was reading. As I explained to her the article, and Bama’s storied past,she inquired about what a national championship was. I told her all about it, and to be fair, I also told her it has been a LONG time since Auburn had one. She asked me when the last one Bama had won one was, and I told her nineteen hundred and ninety two. She looked at me with a smile on her face, and in between laughs and giggles, she said to me, “And you mean they are still talking about it?” I almost fell out of my chair. That is a true story, and I am by no means being sarcastic to any Alabama fan. I just thought that I would share it with you because, like you, I am having football withdrawal, and can not wait till the season gets here.

  10. 11
    Bama Fan In N Y C

    And during the 1950s (keep in mind a period of which Alabama only scored seven points against The Polytechnic Institute of Alabama over a four or five year period), Barnies claimed Alabama fans would never relive the glory days of Wallace Wade and Frank Thomas.

    During the late 1980s, Barnies claimed Alabama would never make a return to prominence, after that, Alabama won the next 8 out of 12 Iron Bowls, one national title, two SEC titles (out of four attempts).

    Now the same nonsense is being said once again. If you guys honestly think, with the talent we’re racking up (keep in mind these are players that are far more talented than the players who have only lost to The Polytechnic Institute of Alabama, whose talent was far more superior than ours, by an average of seven points or less for six straight years). Keep delusion going strong, as long as it’s comforting to you, then that’s completely fine with me. Just as Alabama has done time and time again, we’ll snatch the state right out of your little undeserving paws.

    Thirty to forty years from today, we’ll be in the same position and Barnies will proclaim Alabama will never return to prominence ever again.

    That’s Alabama and The Polytechnic Institute of Alabama in a nutshell.

  11. 12
    FinebaumJunkie

    You seem to forget the close Iron Bowls of the 80s, one of which is a loving memory of the Tide. As you say Bama was racking up talent in the state, it took a last second field goal from Tiffin to win the game. Wow what a blowout from a far superior team. As I said in a recent post, all the stars in the world can’t gauge heart or soul. If you or anybody else wants to claim moral victory by saying we only lost by…. be my guest. Only speaking for myself, but I have never paid much attention to recruiting rankings, and I am serious when I say that. I have heard about all kinds of superstars for years, and seen some, not all, be a bigger bust than Visionland(aka Alabama Adventure). Only time will tell,and when it happens, it will be on the field, not on a blog or radio show.

  12. 13
    The BAMMER from St. Clair

    Its just like I’ve thought for several years…the Aubies are jealous and they will remain jealous. You AUBUMS need to worry more about what’s going on in your village than being so pre-occupied with the goings-on in Tuscaloosa! In response to some of the things I’ve read, great memories should be cherished. That’s why we still talk about the past accomplishments of the Mighty Crimson Tide. Let me remind you Aubies that y’all were still screaming “Punt ‘Bama, Punt” for 10 long years! The main difference between the thought processes of us BAMMERS and you AUBUMS is that we think NATIONALLY while you guys are stuck in a REGIONAL mode of thinking. I’ll be back!

  13. 14
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    On gameday Sweet Home Alabama will be replaced by “Glory Days” by Bruce Springsteen.

    The TIGERS are coming!

  14. 15
    Kevin

    Thank you for stating the obvious…Bama has the most storied football tradition in the SEC. Now, let me state the obvious:

    1)It’s 8:44 am and light outside.
    2) At midnight tonight, it will be dark outside.
    3)When it rains, things get wet.
    4)Poop stinks

    and last but certainly not least…..

    4)The crimson tards are a joke in today’s world, evidenced by the fact that they lost to LA Monroe

  15. 16
    david

    Moral victories, close losses, NCAA penalties. What is next Bama fans teasing us because we did not sack their quarterback 11 times last year?

  16. 17
    Ballplay Indian

    I wont argue with the facts that Shane presented. Bama was the best team in the SEC no doubt. They used to be the best in the country as well during the 60s and 70s.
    Now a question for the Bammers. What other teams in the country have as many or more national championships than Bama? Remember boys that by your own criteria we can go back 100+ years. Does the powerhouses of Princeton and Harvard come to mind? Totally irrelevent teams by todays standards. Are yall starting to get it?
    If you tell yourselves that you kick ass enough times yall might start to believe it, but the only problem is nobody else (including LAMO) does.
    Saban is going to lose to Auburn this year.If he loses next year yall will fire him and the pattern of psycosis known as CRIMSON TIDE football will continue.

  17. 18
    CrimsonJim

    O.K. Folks,
    Even with NCAA sanctions and a hiatus of poor coaches – yes, the last 20 years have been rough on Alabama’s success on the field – the other schools did not make much of a dent in the records mentioned in Shane’s column.
    And, yes, history is important – that’s why it is still taught in schools.
    Finally, Alabama has a reputable coach (a recruiting genius and a proven-winner). Watch those conference-record differentials become even bigger. The future looks bright and Alabama will remain King of the SEC.

  18. 19
    julio

    Yes Bama fans, I absolutely agree with bammer from st. clair that precious memories should be cherished. The problem is, you guys don’t seem to understand the definition of the term “memory”. In order to have a memory of an event, you must have had some personal experience with it. I’ve read about the civil war, but I don’t have a “memory” of it because I wasn’t even born when it happened. You have to be about 40 or older to have any actual memory of Bear’s “glory days” to cherish, and and that’s only the last leg of the MNC’s from the late 70’s. (spare me the BS about how vivid your memories of the games are from when you were 5 yrs old. you might remember that your dad was a fan, but you don’t remember squat about the games.) I doubt there is more than a handful of readers on this site that were even born during the MNC’s of the 60’s.

    As I’ve said before, I don’t begrudge Bama for acknowledging the history of the MNC’s, or even taking some semblance of pride in them. (btw, the correct term is history, not tradition. tradition is a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting. That definition could certainly apply to you bammers in the context of how you “think” you are entitled to supremacy without any basis, but it ain’t got anything to do with a MNC won during the Coolidge administration.)

    Minnesota claims to have won 6 MNC’s, but you don’t see them crowing about being the greatest team in the Big Ten. They know that they have largely sucked in modern memory, and that they would look like idiots if they tried to claim supremacy in the Big Ten based upon ancient titles won before anybody was even born. You Bama fans don’t seem to have that same wisdom.

  19. 20
    jaywall14

    Keep thinking positive Shane. Bama is definately, without a doubt the “historically” best team in the SEC, but they are just that – HISTORY.
    I’d be interested to know what the updated stats would be after scholarship limitations were implemented. LOL!

  20. 21
    WJB07AU

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Auburn and Tennessee surpass Alabama in the series records within the next 15 years, honestly. Bama lost the throne of the SEC to the rest of the conference in the 80s, then failed to gain it back in the 90s b/c Florida was the team to beat with Spurrier.

    Don’t let morons like Shane fool you… Bama isn’t what they once were and never will be again.

  21. 22
    SHANEHATERS

    I am glad its not Bammers deciding the fate of the world we would still be driving Model T’s…wake up its 2008 not
    1968 or 78 the last 20 years has proven that Alabama is no more a power house than Saban is a flippin recruiting genious or Shane is original see below

    The hiring of Nick Saban combined with a fully-stocked Alabama football team will undoubtedly make it difficult, if not impossible, for the rest of the SEC to chase down the King. The rest of the best in the SEC aren’t going anywhere, but they’d better get prepared because the Crimson Tide is about to embark on another stellar run, and it will happen quickly with Saban at the helm. Sometime in the near future the Tide will rightfully take its place atop the SEC once again. he said this same thing about SHULA 4 years ago just replace ol nickie boys name with Shula

  22. 23
    FinebaumJunkie

    Another famous “king” Elvis was found laying dead in the crapper. Sounds almost ironic. Oh thats right, he is still alive also.

  23. 24
    Ballplay Indian

    Ive said it before so Ill sayy it agaain. No repeat noooo college football team will dominate(i.e. 6 championships in 20 years) college football like the old Bama glory days of the 60s and 70s. Why? because of the Almighty Dollar folks. Paydays breed competition like nothing else. more than school pride , tradition , or anything else.
    Lucritive t.v. contracts, BCS paydays, Bowl revenue, Merchendising , Gait money etc add up to billions of dollars out there for the taking. For wining teams that is.
    No team will be able to flat out dominate like Bama did way back when. For instance look at USC west. The world is their oyster when it comes to recruiting, their budget is unbelievable, prestigous , Pete Carroll is an awesome coach, creampuff conference, media darlings , the list goes on and on. Now how many BCS championships do they have? ONE.

    Its not the same game BAHR played. The ncaa came up with half their rulebook because of Bahr. Bryant would be an above average coach in todays game IMO.

    The SEC has so many good programs now that Idont see any team being the BELLCOW there Shane. If BAMA is the BELLCOW then AUBURN has STUMPBROKE them for 6 staight years. Shane , you should know what that means.

  24. 25
    daniel

    I think Auburn fans talk such trash for deep down, they know that we will never treat them with the classlessness we have experienced from them the last six years. Here in Atlanta, the AU fans are so obnoxious. They literally go out of their way to yell War Eagle when they see a Bama fan come their way. At least most of them admit that we have the prettier campus.

  25. 26
    Ballplay Indian

    Daniel puleeeeeese dude. Go to any national board and see what the rest of the world thinks about how CLASSY bammers are. And then ask any one on the national boards who have traveled to an Auburn game how they were treated. You couldnt have it any more backwards.

  26. 27
    david

    I will be wearing my Mickey Mantle t-shirt next year. That way I can remind the Bama fans of the fate that awaits them———–#7!

  27. 28
    julio

    Here’s what a writer from the Syracuse Post-Standard had to say about his experience and treatement at the 02 Auburn Syracuse game. To say that it is flattering of AU would be the understatement of the century. The title of the article is “Go to Auburn… Be Changed Forever”

    http://www.sportssheila.com/poliquin.html

  28. 29
    m johnson

    Still the kings ehhh??
    Rogue boosters falling down stairs, radio personality and past quarterback icon arrested slobbering drunk on highway 59, 7 players last season arrested, one apparently chasing cars on the strip, losing to your arch rival 6 years straight and trying to justify it by throwing young men under the bus saying they aren’t talented enough or don’t have enough heart, losing to La Monroe, wow, La Monroe, even with a 4 million dollar per year coach, you lost to La Monroe. So bask in your past oh mullet heads. Hoist your Bahr Bryant glasses high and cheer one another with that rot-gut liquor you rednecks drink. Keep waving that tide detergent box with the roll of tissue on it (classy, very classy). Keep screaming like maniacs when your newly hired coach arrives at Tuscaloosar parking lot/airport, then get a dui on the way home to your trailer. I could go on and on. It’s rolling baby. Yep, come to think of it, you are king after all.

  29. 30
    The BAMMER from St. Clair

    YO, JULIO! Yes, I have vivid memories of the latter portion of the ‘Bama Dynasty that the Bear built. As a matter of fact I am 42. Thank you for acknowledging that memories should be cherished. Maybe you realize now that you aren’t chatting with a bunch of kids that can only remember 1992 and the rest of that WONDERFUL decade when we owned the rivalry (1990,’91, ’92, ’94, ’96, ’98 & ’99). I stand by my statement that you AUBIES ARE JEALOUS and will REMAIN JEALOUS! As a resident of the ‘Bama Nation, I am a realist and I realize that the Crimson Tide doesn’t belong in the Nation’s elite just because of our name. It takes dedication, pride, hard work and a leader who has a steely determination to get the job done. We had that with Coach Bryant and Coach Stallings. I and many others, some of whom ARE NOT ‘Bama fans, realize what the hiring of Nick Saban meant. Alabama is committed in its bid to return to the NATIONAL STAGE. Aubies, just sit back and kick and scream and complain because we’re on our way back.

  30. 31
    The BAMMER from St. Clair

    One other thing. I guess that the AUBUMS want us to admit that we LOST to La. Monroe. Yeah, we lost that game. Let me remind y’all of something. Remember the South Florida game last year? Heck, we beat South Florida in 2003 with Mike Shula as head coach, and yes, Jim Leavitt was their coach then. Later!

  31. 33
    FinebaumJunkie

    What kind of cookie do you want, oatmeal or chocolate chip? I remember 03 and the difference is had you played them last year, they would have ran over Bama like Stabler runs over his bar tabs. Didn’t the Bulls go to a bowl last year? Ok, how about in 03? Make another useless point.

  32. 34
    tmc1

    I think there is a strange duality here.
    “Bama is still the King”
    And Auburn is the school of choice for QUEENS.

  33. 35
    The BAMMER from St. Clair

    YO, FINEBAUM JUNKIE! It looks like I struck a nerve! Every Bammer knows that we lost to La. Monroe. Anytime you lose a game like that, it is always a bitter pill to swallow. I’m just slinging mud right back at you. Auburn was SUPPOSED to beat USF just like Alabama was SUPPOSED to beat La. Monroe. Anyone who closely examines the UA and AU teams of 2007 will notice some similarities between the two. All of UA’s losses were by 7 points or less, 3 of AU’s 4 losses were by 6 points or less. I could go on, but in closing I call your attention to the Iron Bowl of last year. After watching the game and portions of the game several times, there is not a large disparity of talent between the two teams. I will say that AU had the better team last year, but not by a whole lot. Enjoy the ride while it lasts, because its coming to an end! Later!

  34. 36
    m johnson

    Bammer from St Clair. Clear something up for me. Why is it that some Alabama fans think that what happens in Tuscaloosa effects Auburn? Auburn takes care of its business regardless of what’s happening with Alabama. While you were experimenting with coaches and bidding for high school prospects, we were doing it right and winning. We could care less how good you think you are, or how sorry you are. If you want a coach that rides around town with a security detail that looks like something George Bush would have, that’s fine. I’d just like to know what makes you think we’re concerned about little nicky and you and the rest of the bammer nation’s battle cry “we’re back”…………we’ve heard it all before.

  35. 37
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    Would I like to add a sixth MNC Trophy to our Athletic Department? Sure. Until then, DOMINATING and STOMPING bama is a good consolation prize.

    The TIGERS are coming!

  36. 38
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    FineScum is a must read today. It’s time to come off your high horse bama and fall back down to where you belong. AVERAGE at best. #1 Recruiting hahahahaha

  37. 39
    SHANEHATERS

    FineBum is still a SISSY GURL
    Looks Like
    OL BAHR JR up there is pulling tricks from DADDIES BAG!!!

    anyone remember how SR really pulled
    his players…. he Benched #1 GUYS!

  38. 40
    david

    You know Bama being Bama will still claim the mythical recruiting national championship no matter what just like they do with the NC’s. When half their class washes out and the other half ends up in the state pen we will see who ends up with the more effective recruiting class. Julio will end up causing more trouble than he is worth.

  39. 41
    Jake

    David ,David ,David , 25 years ago Alabama won a National Championship.When did Aubarn last win a National Championship? Never it was still Poly Tech when they last won a National Championship.

  40. 42
    The BAMMER from St. Clair

    YO, M. JOHNSON! In response to your questions, everyday on talk radio regardless of the host of the show, you Aubies want to talk about Alabama. Once in a while the occasional caller sticks to AU and says nothing about UA, but that is very rare. That’s why I say that you should worry about what’s going on in the village. As for bidding for high school products, I’ve never denied that crap like that happens. Don’t even begin to act like AU has never been involved in recruiting scandals or payola for players and PLEASE don’t bring up the off-the-field antics of certain players. AU’s sacred cow, Pat Dye allowed Brent Fullwood to play in the bowl game following the 1986 season when he failed to attend classes for a whole semester. Remember Jeff Burger? This guy had a gun in the parking lot of some fast food chain while he played for AU! Granted, this is now ancient history, but don’t act so high and mighty. As for some Alabama fans that have the audacity to say, “We’re Back,” they don’t know their rear end from a hole in the ground. I’ll say that we are on our way, but we haven’t gotten there yet! Later.

  41. 43
    m johnson

    st clair, I guess all I’m saying is I would like to see both teams be good. Say what you want about Dye, but he and Stallings had both teams playing well. I enjoy ragging each other, don’t have a problem at all with it, but just like you eluded to, I do get tired of the “we’re back” garbage. Both schools have their idiot fans, and they are on display daily on the Finebaum show. In fact, the biggest ass clown you guys have is Shane. I guess he’s about equal to I man or Charles from Reeltown…Later

  42. 44
    The Guest

    Shane…Notre Dame fan here..”watch this ya’ll”… “Ara Parseghian !!!”…….(just rub hard and the chills with go away Shane)..What was the Bears’ record vs. Are Parseghian from 64’to 74’while he was at Notre Dame?…care to explain.??

    As for the last 10 years..ya’ll suck as bad as we do..let’s play next year ~~!!

  43. 45
    Jerry

    As an Auburn alum and fan, I have never had a problem accepting Alabama’s rightful place in college football lore. Considering pure numbers, Bama is the 6th winningest program in college football. Auburn is 14th. And it is true Bama has more championships that the rest of the conference combined. And too, Bama has played in more bowl games.
    This is history, easily verified, and not conjecture.

    This being said, it is curious that Shane and many of the more rabid Bama fans are seemingly insecure in spite their “monarchy”. Only the truly insecure have to constantly brag about their greatness.

    The reason for this is simple. Many Bama loyalists base their self esteem on someone else… namely, their team. And in this lies the danger for self esteem should come from within, and not from the performance of a group of 18-22 year olds.

    Shane is particularly unstable. If you listen to him he often chides Auburn fans for being obscessed with Alabama, but it seems 90% of his verbage is about Auburn…go figure.

    Shane and many Bama fans are also living in fear, which explains their recent behavior. The unspoken fear around the capstone is this, “what do we do if Saban doesn’t take us to the mountaintop?” Didn’t Shula beat UL-Monroe by about 40 points? The 4 million dollar man takes you from a six loss regular season to a six loss regular season. The great “what if” is, what if he doesn’t get any better? Bama fans have short fuses and Southern Cal might come calling next year…

  44. 46
    Shanes Boyfriend

    Absolutely pathetic…..reaching back 50 years attempting to diminish the past 20 miserable years in UAT history….give it up ice boy!

  45. 47
    OldTraffordman

    The hiring of Nick Saban and a fully stocked team will make it difficult if not impossible to chase down the king?

    When did what Alabama do have a direct impact on the University of Florida?

    The tide (love the pun) has turned and the era of Alabama as a dominant power has been over for a long while. They may have a 2-3 year window here and there but never again will have a sustained run of success.

    Florida recruits in a state 4X bigger than Alabama with top notch talen. Georgia owns their state which is soon to be more than 2X greater in population than Alabama with equal if not better high school competion. This is not the NFL with a salary cap and a draft so these things matter. Florida, Georgia, and LSU have built in advantages Alabama does not. LSU does not have to share their state with another significant program. Georgia hardly does as well (sorry Techies). Florida needs only hold their own against FSU and Miami to have a base of talen far above the base Alabama has. Put good coaches at LSU, Georgia, and Florida like they have now and Alabama will not win consistantly against those programs. Bear Bryant who made that famous quote about fearing the rise of Florida which is being proven true.

    Sorry Shane. You get it dead wrong yet again. You should hope for success but your blog here does not convince that it is inevitable.

  46. 48
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    Jerry, very well said and true.

    The Guest, welcome to the blog. Watch out, bama will bring up “The Hit” back in 86. That is all that matters to them because they won. Just wait you will see. Enjoy the upcoming season and Good Luck.

    Oh yea, Shane is CHICKEN to respond. He’s a Professional Blogger you know.

  47. 49
    tmc1

    You guys are still dreaming, CNS will be wiping up the field with Juggears.
    By the way Bama has a NC in the last 20 years where is Auburn’s?
    Be realistic….. the famed 2004 people’s national championship was the pinnacle for Auburn and it has been slowly down hill since. In 3 years Auburn will struggle to win 5 games a year. CTT will leave Auburn like he left Ole Miss,(run into the ground.)
    But luckily Auburn might be able to trade up to Phil Fulmer.

  48. 50
    m johnson

    tmc. what type of reasoning from your 3rd grade educated mind leads you to believe that the mear hiring of dinky saban will cause auburn to win only 5 games per year. i’d really like somebody to explain that to me. by the way, that was over 10 years ago when tubbs left ole miss. once again, stop living in the past.

  49. 53
    Shane Can't Buy a Clue

    Auburn fans aren’t obsessed with Alabama. For that matter, neither are Tennessee fans, LSU fans, Georgia fans, or anybody else’s fans. Truth be told, we all hold a begrudging respect for Alabama. But the truth remains, Alabama hasn’t be the “IT” school in college football for over 25 years. Yeah, they’ve had their moments of success here and there, but the truth is, there are now five other teams in the conference that are on equal or even superior footing with ‘Bama. As long as the money keeps flowing into Auburn, Baton Rouge, Gainesville, Athens and Knoxville, it’s going to stay that way. Alabama–or anyone else for that matter–is never going to be the ultra-dominant program in the SEC.

  50. 54
    larry davis

    hey retard shane what is going on with those top recruits satan thought he had?he
    has lost some to baseball and he will lose several because they can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.nicky satan recruits idiots and then they can’t get into your pathetic school.once again uat is the laughing stock of college football.

  51. 56
    FinebaumJunkie

    I understand that this is only a blog, and everyone has the right to talk trash. That said,can we talk about the Boston Celtics victory? Not the most recent mind you, but the one that they won back in 86. We can even talk about the Lakers championship run in the 80s, back before Magic Johnson stuck his penis in everything with a heartbeat and went and caught AIDS. Or, we can talk about the tv show Fantasy Island. Ricardo Montalbon and Tattoo was the shit. Maybe we can talk some Tommy Tutone and 867-5309 wassup Jenny. This is a fantastic place to come and talk about things past. I think im going to pop in my Vhs tape and watch Bama and Miami in the 92 Sugar Bowl, and afterwards, I will plug in the Atari 2600 and play games, then finish up with about an hour of Rubiks Cube. I gotta go, I need to feed my Sea Monkies.

  52. 57
    The BAMMER from St. Clair

    YO, M. JOHNSON! In response to your comment from a couple of days ago, YES, it gets old hearing some of the other residents of the ‘Bama Nation holler “We’re Back!” Some people don’t really have a clue about modern-day college football. I’ll admit that “good ole Shane” looks at the world through “crimson-colored glasses,” but he’s good for a laugh every now & then. I worry about some people’s sanity, ha-ha! Anyway, its good to converse with some people who have a grip with reality. AU will be an interesting team to watch this season. Anytime you bring in two new coordinators you tend to wonder what they have up their sleeves. I also think that ‘Bama will be interesting simply from the aspect that the players will have more of a grasp of what is expected in the second year under Nick Saban. The season ain’t that far away, but until then we still have to wait and wonder. ROLL TIDE! Later.

  53. 58
    RedneckTider

    Is is still considered a tradition if you no longer do it anymore? Like winning for Alabama? How can you claim winning is a tradition when you can’t even beat your rival team?

  54. 59
    tmc1

    M(ini) johnson.
    Who asked you? Nothing sadder or more pathetic than an Aubbo at a Bama blog seeking validation.
    That is why Shanehaters is a BLOGGER looks like such a loser. He hates Shane and yet like a moth to a flame he cant go away. What a sicko little stalker he must be.

  55. 60
    Ballplay Indian

    ST CLAIR BAMMER… Bammer is hitting the nail on the head with you . To compare 03 S. Florida or 07 LAMO to 07 South Florida only makes sense in a Bammers reasoning process. Might I remind you that S. Florida at one time last year was ranked #2. There is no comparison except to a Bammer trying to make himself feel better about his crappy football program.

    When St. Nick gets your fledgeling program off the ground this year, you still have to play Auburn on our ..I mean your feild. Mark #7 this year. Then next year…mark #8 and the firing of Saban. And another crash and burn period for Bammer football. If that is what gives a team TURDISHUN, I want no part of it.

  56. 61
    Ballplay Indian

    Bammers answer this question. How many seasons until you win your next national championship?

  57. 62
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    tmc, I like the comic section and this is it. You need to stop worring about the Aubbo game and enjoy another 6-6 season. The Aubbo game is what it is, another loss.

  58. 64
    Ballplay Indian

    When facts and the truth start coming in to play on this blog Tmac Ct clair NYC and others run for the hills. Another question bammers. Are yall going to return your CROOTIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP or continue to claim it? The fact that after all is said and done youll end up about #5 SHOULDNT STOP A BAMMER FROM CLAIMING A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP SHOULD IT? After all, about half of the ones you have came from using the formula of “If I continue to say it it must be true” . Gosh I cant wait til football season to starts , after week 1 Bama will have been administered a giant helping of SHUT UP juice.

  59. 65
    mjohnson

    hey ballplay, they’ll just change their battle cry from look at us to “wait til next year”.
    shane is like a little third grade boy who thinks if he repeats something enough he can convince himself of anything. that’s what it boils down to. he’s trying to convince himself.

  60. 66
    Ballplay Indian

    tmac 1 …THA BARN has gone undefeated 2 times since BAMMER backed into the championship in 92. I was at the Lousiana Tech game at Legion feild that year and almost got to see them win. If not for a punt return for a T.D. by Palmer yall wouldnt have had that one. But hey a win is a win. Auburn WILL kick that butt again this year, mark it down.

  61. 67
    Iggy

    Bama is only 5 games up on auburn all time, and auburn played on bama’s home field for 40 straight years, not sure if i would brag about that Shane

  62. 68
    larry davis

    the last 25 years we have seen the auburn tigers beat uat 15 times on the football field.12 of those wins came before probation really hurt you. keep on whining
    and blaming the ncaa and phil fulmer for all your problems.i bet mal moore knows who killed logan young.

  63. 69
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    larry davis, Facts hurt the bammurs, please refrain from the facts and tell them how scared we are of them. That keeps them on Cloud 9 or should I say 7. 9 is coming!

  64. 70
    Bama Bound

    Two minor points:

    1) Bama’s current performance make the mark ten years ago even more impressive.

    2) I figure that about 2013 at Jordan-Hare, Auburn is gonna fix that winning record monopoly that Bama has on the league.

  65. 71
    NickfromHelena

    Hey Shane and the Capstone Report,
    Do you remember who the last recruiting champions were? I mean in 2007, 2006, or before? It didnt exist till you just won it this year. I guess you can add another NC to your fake 12 that you claim. Lets really look at how poor down-trodden Alabama has been with the false accusation that Auburn is taking all the best recruits over the past 6 to 7 years. I will destroy that myth now.
    Let me help you with that and I will relate it to AU and UA….
    2008 #1 UA (first time a recuriting national champion has ever been talked about), #18 AU
    2007 #1 Florida, #6 AU, #22 UA
    2006 #1 USC, t#9 AU, #18 UA
    2005 #1 Tennessee, #16 UA, #22 AU
    2004 #1 USC, #19 UA, #31 AU
    2003 #1 USC, #16 AU, #45 UA
    2002 #1 Texas, #11 AU, #37 UA
    This is from Scout.com who isnt owned by a Red Elephant (Rivals), so probably is a little less biased. Actually in this contest, it is better for Alabama to be lower ranked. So if you average all the years of recruting AU = #16 (2002-07) and UA = #26 (2002-07). Now let us input the 2008 class. AU = #16 (2002-08) and UA = #22 (2002-08).
    Lets look at the numbers more closely at athlete star averages.
    UA – Avg stars 2002 – 2.42, UA – 2003 – 2.35, UA – 2004 – 2.61, UA – 2005 – 2.83, UA – 2006 – 3.30, UA – 2007 – 3.08 = Avg stars UA (2002-2007) – 2.77
    AU – Avg stars 2002 – 2.71, AU – 2003 – 3.16, AU – 2004 – 2.30, AU – 2005 – 3.05, AU – 2006 – 3.40, AU – 2007 – 3.30 = Avg stars AU (2002-2007) – 2.99
    Lets incorporate 2008:
    UA Avg stars – 3.66; Avg stars UA (2002-2008) = 2.89
    AU Avg stars – 2.93; Avg stars AU (2002-2008) = 2.97

    Now looking at the data side to side UA really has not had such bad luck at recruiting since 2002-07 Ranking #26 Avg stars 2.77 and AU 2002-07 Ranking #16 Avg stars 2.99. We all know there were scholarship reductions, but these penalties really didn’t translate into bad recruiting by Bama according to the data. UA (2002-08) Average Recruiting Ranking #22 Avg stars 2.89 and AU (2002-08) Average Recruiting Ranking #16 Avg stars 2.97. If we translate this to the AP poll from 2002 to 2007.

    2002 UA #11, AU #14
    2003 UA Not in top 25, AU Not in top 25
    2004 UA Not in top 25, AU #2
    2005 UA #8, AU #14
    2006 UA Not in top 25, AU #9
    2007 UA Not in top 25, AU #15

    Lets discount years 2003 and give AL an AP ranking of 26 when not in the top 25 (years 2004, 2006, & 2007). Calculates out to Avg AP ranking UA = 19 and AU = 11. This means that there is an 8 ranking difference (19-11) between AU and AL over the past 5 years. If you look at tailing last 2 years of recruits and compare with the final AP standing 1,2,,3 and 4 years in advance (ie look at 2002 and later years recruits and compare with translation on the field in year 2004):

    AU 2004 #2 AP finsih with Scout recruit ranking #11 (2002) and #16 (2003)
    UA 2004 Not in top 25 AP finish with Scout recruit ranking #37 (2002) and #45 (2003)

    AU 2005 #14 AP finish with Scout recruit ranking #11 (2002), #16 (2003) and #31 (2004)
    UA 2005 #8 AP finish with Scout recruit ranking #37 (2002), #45 (2003), and #19 (2004)

    AU 2006 #9 AP finish with Scout recruit ranking #11 (2002), #16(2003), #31 (2004), and #22 (2005)
    UA 2006 Not in top 25 finish with Scout recruit ranking #37 (2002), #45 (2003), #19 (2004), and #16 (2005)

    AU 2007 #15 AP finish with Scout recruit ranking #16(2003), #31 (2004), and #22 (2005), and #9 (2006)
    UA 2007 Not in top 25 AP finish with Scout recruit ranking #45 (2003), #19 (2004), #16 (2005), and #18 (2006)

    I really wish there was more data before 2002, but there is not. My point is this….Recruit polls do not equal wins on the field as obvious by the above data. There is no obvious correlation with recruit rankings and AP finishes. The other point is that UA has not really gotten the shaft in recruiting over the last 7 years of data when compared to AU (AU #16, UA #22). Sorry but Bamers excuses of bad recruiting years doesn’t hold water. There is no relationship. The real reason for the sorry game play from Alabama is the past coaches and the relationship from coach to players. Tuberville has AU on the right road, we will see if Saban can do the same.

  66. 72
    capstonereport

    Your conclusions are wrong. If you are interested in a real analysis (independent) of Alabama or Auburn then you should read these links from Sunday Morning Quarterback (the last one is the one that matters the most for this argument.)

    According to SMQ, Auburn ranked 10th in Rivals recruiting rankings for 2002-2007 period. Auburn ranked 7th in winning percentage for the same time span. Take a look at how poorly Alabama performed relative to its recruiting ranking, and then look at how SMQ explains the subpar winning percentage. It is very interesting stuff, and not biased like your numbers, or numbers i might offer.

    1. Stars do matter http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/2008/4/28/13464/0601 In this post, SMQ reveals Semantics can’t hide the trend: five-star recruits have roughly a one-in-four chance of eventually being drafted, twice as high as four-star recruits, who themselves are about three times more likely to get picked than three-star prospects, and so on. Five-star kids are substantially more likely to get picked at any point in the first five rounds.

    2. Five Star prospects as All Americans http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/story/2008/3/17/71811/4082 SMQ’s analysis of national trends show: Five-star prospects were about three times as likely to earn an all-America vote than four-star prospects, five-and-a-half times as likely as a three-star prospect, eleven times as likely as a one, two or zero-star prospect. If the setting was ‘random; – if the rankings were worthless – every level would show roughly the same 1 in 59 odds of producing an all-American. Three, four and five-star prospects all fared better than that, the top two much better than that. Zero, one and two-stars were not close. If you pay attention to the distribution of the star rankings, the results are nothing like a bell curve.

    3. Recruiting rankings accurately predict on field success http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/2008/1/21/1614/43228 Here SMQ’s numbers reveal: So: Rivals was very, very good at picking the top teams – of the top 25 winningest teams of the last six years, all were either pegged in or very near their respective positions by the recruiting rankings or achieved them by winning against overwhelmingly lower-ranked opposition; of the top 25 teams according to the recruiting rankings, 18 are in the top 30 in winning percentage. This is to be expected when you spend most of your time distinguishing between a small number of high-profile, four and five-star guys but can’t possibly make the same level of distinction among a much larger number of two and three-star prospects with more variability among them than the star-based rankings are designed to show. If Rivals indicates a team’s talent is good, it’s probably right; if it indicates it’s just average, or below average, that team probably still has a shot – but only to an extent. You’d be wrong if you cast your lot with the gurus completely, and wronger if you ignored them.

    I’d really recommend reading those if you care about the statistical numbers.

  67. 73
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    CAP, too loooong, leave that for Shane.

    NICK, Great work! tmc1 will throw 9 in a row at you so watch out.

  68. 74
    capstonereport

    LOL funny. Nick writes something longer and you say my reply was too long, but praise his obviously incorrect statistical nonsense.

    Why am I not shocked.

  69. 75
    Ballplay Indian

    NICK FROM HELENA AND CRACKSTONE REPORT. When recruiting , no one with half a brain would argue that they wouldnt want the best athletes. But, other qualities are just as important in a kid. GPA. Attitude , Work ethic, etc, do not factor in on a RIVALS star ranking. Some years more athletes posses these qualities than others. Hence (at least in Auburns case) a higher or lower star ranking. Say what you want about Tubbs, but the man DEVELOPES players. And is a good gameday coach to boot. As much as I hate to admit it Saban is a decent developer of talent, though not as good as Tubbs. Not as good a gameday coach either. But is hands down one of the best recruiters in the country.
    Tray Blackmon is a rare exception of a player that Tubbs normally wouldnt recruit, because of attitude, but did. after 2 years it appears that Tubbs reigned him in. It will be intresting to see if Saban and team will be able to get away with what he got away with at LSU. I doubt it.
    I guess to make a long story short , it takes the whole package, Recruiting, Player development, Player discipline (ask 07 bama), Gameday coaching, and Program stability. At least Bammer has 3 out of the 5.

  70. 77
    Road to 13

    Alabama and Auburn will always have these fights with each other. Right now Auburn has the upper hand with 6 in a row, and will eventually lose that title. Once they do the series will probably start flip flopping for a while until one team begins to dominate again. So for now, Auburn fans enjoy it while it lasts. I’m sure that once Bama wins 2 or 3 in a row Auburn will be talking about how they won 6 in a row and until Bama gets to 7, 3 in a row means nothing. Which will be true to the nature of Auburn, hypocritical since Bama cannot speak of any record of anything that shows Bama in a positive light. It’s actually a very interesting sociological view into the insane mind.

  71. 78
    freaking genius

    cocaine in tuscaloosa????!!! who knew???

    nice of the school and coach to turn their backs on him now. Now let everyone try to feed us the “we had no idea” line. they knew. if they didn’t then they’re idiots. Nick the great included.

  72. 80
    mjohnson

    It’s great, to be, an Auburn Tiger.
    Pass the coke Jimmy, pass the booze Snake. Again, what a bunch of thugs.
    I’m glad to see Dinky Saban has cleaned up the program.

  73. 81
    mjohnson

    Wasn’t Johns Mr Football 4 years ago.
    The University really knows how to help a young man develope. He goes from Mr Football, to prison, in 4 years at Tuscalooser.
    Just wait until this latest pack of thugs hits campus. Where are we, 10 players arrested since Dinky has been coach. Great coach you mullets have hired.

  74. 82
    Ballplay Indian

    In all seriousness the crackstone will have major issues with this latest batch of CROOTS. Wasnt Julio involved in a driveby. Maybe his friend was killed or something? That is a tragedy without a doubt. Maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time or something. But recruiters have to start doing something about the win at all cost mentality. Some of these guys just shouldnt be offered scholarships in the first place . I dont care how good they are. It will be interesting to see how Julio and some of the others will end up. But some of Bammers 08 class are good guys. The linebacker from Gadsden City comes to mind. Have only heard good things about him.

  75. 83
    Ballplay Indian

    Ill bet 10 cents that Prince Hall has now “learned his lesson” and will be reinstated. Nick “high road” Saban will suddenly spew some crap about being a coach of second chances. Not to mention about 5 or 6 of the CROOTIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM are no longer eligable. Prince Hall will be starting against Clemson. Wow . How the might have fallen again ….

  76. 84
    larry davis

    hey insane shane, nicky satan has lost another player. when will satan get a grip on his program? uat continues to be the laughing stock of college football.

  77. 86
    Shane is a BLOGGER

    Do you know what ESPN, Tom Luginbill, Phil Fulmer, Don Shula, LSU fans, Tenn fans, Michigan State fans and the whole United States all have in common?
    They are lauging their butts off at the almighty Crimson Tide. Just when you think bama is taking a step forward BAM! two steps back.

  78. 88
    Shanes Boyfriend

    Shane, don’t even think about writing that Saban acted quickly and firmly in the John’s matter. He was dismissed from school immediately upon his arrest, so even Nicky couldn’t alibi him staying on the team.

  79. 89
    Ballplay Indian

    As is normally the case, Shane wont even mention this in this weeks blog. Hell talk about some crap like ” Auburns commits, Tubbs desperate last hoorah? Or is that all he can do?” Or something to that effect. Crimson Glasses have warped his mind. How could any Alabama fan possibly be worried about whats going on across the state with that cluter hump going on in Tuscaloosa? As someone else said BLOWWWWW TIDE BLOWWWWWW!!!!!!

  80. 90
    BeachForecast

    this isn’t merely a uat problem. drugs have permeated our society and there seems little can be done.

    just ashamed a person with obvious talent would think this wouldn’t eventually happen.

    we should all give thanks not to have been raised so poorly

  81. 91
    SHANE'S PAIN

    Perhaps Lou Saban should have donated that million dollars back to the University to build a halfway house in Tuscaloosa for ex-Bama players and commentators!. I think Lou, out of the goodness of his wallet, actually sees what a bad job he has done and felt like the donation would kill 2 birds with one stone. First bird was to show up Tubby’s goodwill in the middle east and the second would be out of guilt for being way over paid. I suppose a million dollars wouldn’t be enough to house all the ex-bammer players needing help.

    ITS GREAT TO BE AN AUBURN TIGER!

  82. 92
    Ballplay Indian

    Shane.. you can pump all the sunshine in the universe up the bammers butts on this blog, and cut down Auburn nonstop. But there is no escaping this fact.

    It must suck to be an Alabama fan.

  83. 94
    NickfromHelena

    Capstone Report,
    These are not my “biased” numbers. These are directly from the Scout.com site since 2002. Also the AP rankings are facts, not biased numbers. This isnt a made up story like you commonly publish on this farce of a website.

    I agree somewhat with you argument, however, there are 11 members on a football team. More than likely all 11 starters were not 5 star ranked players by Scout and Rivals, therefore, their game performance is directly dictated by how they perform on the field with the help of coaching of course and practice. Therefore, like about 90% of statistics which describe events, they do follow a Gaussian (bell curve for your intellect) distribution.

    With this fact in mind, all 11 players are therefore a collection of talent, coaching, and performance based on practice. Again, my point is valid that game winning is based on coaching and performance not stars. A great result of this can be seen in the teams of Notre Dame and Tennessee which have finished in the top 10 in recruting year in an year out recently, yet have little to show for it on the field.

    The results of Auburn based on their recruiting numbers bear these facts that over the past five years we have had multiple Bowl appearances and predominately won them. If you look at Alabama which finished #8 in 2005 by AP rankings and no less then didnt break the top 25 all the following years means that recruiting does not reflect winning on the field and this is a direct result of coaching problems, player problems (which Alabama has a lot of), and performance. Nuff said. WDE.

  84. 95
    capstonereport

    Your numbers are biased because you fudge them, and have picked a narrow sample. You need a real sample, and non-fudged numbers. Read SMQ.

    SMQ is not biased like you, or you’d say that I am.

    His numbers are REAL and it shows a strong correlation between recruiting ranking and winning percentage.

  85. 96
    NickfromHelena

    Winning % vs. BCS Schools, 2002-2007
    Rank Team Record Win % Rivals Rank Difference
    1 Southern Cal 63-8 .887 1 –
    2 Ohio State 54-11 .831 12 + 10
    3 Oklahoma 54-13 .806 3 –
    4 Texas 48-12 .800 7 + 3
    5 Georgia 52-15 .776 2 -3
    6 LSU 48-15 .762 5 -1
    7 Auburn 46-17 .730 10 + 3
    8 Louisville 31-13 .705 48 + 40
    9 Michigan 45-19 .703 11 + 2
    10 W. Virginia 40-18 .690 44 + 34
    11 Virginia Tech 41-20 .672 30 + 19
    12 Miami 40-22 .645 8 -4
    13 Florida 40-23 .635 4 -9
    14 Wisconsin 38-22 .633 45 + 31
    15 Boston Coll. 35-21 .625 41 + 26
    16 California 38-23 .623 18 + 2
    17 Iowa 39-24 .619 39 + 21
    18 Florida State 44-28 .611 6 -12
    19 Tennessee 38-25 .603 9 -10
    20 Virginia 37-25 .597 19 -1
    21 Texas Tech 34-24 .586 46 + 25
    22 Oregon State 32-24 .571 47 + 25
    23 Georgia Tech 37-29 .561 54 + 31
    24 Oregon 34-28 .548 25 + 1
    25 Arizona State 35-29 .547 25 –
    26 Clemson 35-29 .547 31 + 5
    27 Notre Dame 33-28 .541 14 -13
    28 Missouri 31-27 .535 36 + 8
    29 Maryland 32-28 .533 22 -7
    30 UCLA 33-29 .532 21 -9
    31 Penn State 32-29 .525 28 -3
    32 Nebraska 31-31 .500 17 -15
    33 Purdue 32-32 .500 43 + 11
    34 Wake Forest 31-33 .484 64 + 30
    35 Arkansas 28-31 .475 20 -15
    36 Alabama 27-30 .474 16 -20
    37 Kansas State 27-29 .466 38 + 1
    38 Pittsburgh 25-29 .463 37 + 1
    39 Wash. State 27-32 .458 55 + 16
    40 N.C. State 26-31 .456 33 -7
    41 South Florida 17-21 .447 58 + 17
    42 Oklahoma State 25-31 .446 23 -19
    43 Colorado 29-37 .439 34 -9
    44 Northwestern 24-33 .421 59 + 15
    45 Cincinnati 15-21 .417 66 + 21
    46 So. Carolina 25-35 .417 13 -32
    47 Texas A&M 24-34 .414 14 -33
    48 Minnesota 22-33 .400 56 + 8
    49 Mich. State 24-38 .387 42 -7
    50 UConn 17-28 .378 65 + 15

    This is from the SMQ website you mentioned. Look at the top 50 winning teams, and look at the recruiting ranking. Several teams are not predicted by the recruit ranking (W. Virginia, Louisville, Wisconsin, Boston College, Iowa, Florida St, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Alabama, etc). Why are these teams not AP ranked (ie finish the year AP ranked) tantamount to their recruiting ranking over the past years (02-07)? I have the answer, Shane, coaches and coaching… The bad teams had bad coaches who cant utilize the recruiting talent and good coaches who can “beat urn with hisn and beat hisn with urn”, to quote the Bear. That is the answer. Only USC, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Texas, and Oklahoma recruit rankings predicted actual AP finishes.

    That proves my point again that most all of these teams listed do not follow recruiting trends. Recruiting actually does not predict rank at the end of the year. Hello, add up the teams yourself, and see. Thirty three teams recruit ranking means squat when applied to predict wins and most were >5 positions off when trying to predict rank finishes. Thanks for proving my point again.

  86. 97
    capstonereport

    SIGH

    You need to learn about statistics. You should expect outlying instances in any sample. HOWEVER, you have to learn what the trends say for ALL schools not select examples. Some schools underperformed and some overperformed. That is to be expected. Did you bother to read the analysis or look at the whole essay and see the explanations for those schools? Of course not. You have an agenda you are trying to push. Go ahead, I really don’t care what you think…just think Auburn can win getting shitty players. That’s fine with me…it’ll bite you in the end. 🙂

    If you really care what the lessons from SMQ’s analysis were—it is simple:The rankings are a serviceable baseline for (on the field) expectation. How did they reach the conclusion when some teams did better and others did worse? teams that underperformed did so by facing teams who were ranked higher than them in recruiting, and those who overperformed did so by playing games against teams that were ranked lower than them in recruiting.

    When you look at the sample, and control for differences in schedule (ie: SEC schedules are tougher than Big East schedules), you begin to see a lot more interesting lessons—and you see how important good recruiting is.

    But make excuses and delude yourself. I really don’t care. The data is ironclad. Recruiting matters. It is a strong predictor of future performance (not perfect, but the best indicator of any), and star ranking is an excellent predictor of who makes it into the NFL draft.

  87. 98
    NickfromHelena

    DOUBLE SIGH

    We will see in the end, that is defintely true. You know why, because the recruiting doesnt equal wins. THAT IS THE ISSUE.

    Statistics are in front of your face and I am looking at all of the teams not just the top 10. I have compiled the STATS from Scout and found many holes (I mean potholes) in your SMQ website theory. The select few teams who do predict end of the year rankings do so because of one immuntable TRUTH: the coaching staff actually prepare, teach, and watch film with the players. PROBABLY THE KEY POINT, the players perform and execute game plans. Those that overperform based on their recruiting rankings, GUESS WHAT, actually have great coaches who have left these programs because they are winners (examples Rich Rodriguez and Bobby Petrino). I dont have a statistics degree, but I have taken and got an A in differential equations and differential calculus in college. I understand math and have an chemical engineering degree. I think I am versed enough to know a little about simple statistics.

    Just to wrap this issue up and bag it, Shane, I do have some respect for what you say about this issue and I see your points, but the bigger picture is this: Tubberville, no matter how much you hate Auburn and would love to destroy the program to the level of Alabama, it is not gonna happen anytime soon. For all of the stars Alabama has this year, it will not translate onto the field this year and probably not next year. The thing that will have the most bearing on the rivalry in the third year of your blue chipper class is that Star Jackson will be a junior and Kodi Burns a senior and I will take that bet anyday.

    I think AU is going to dominate this decade for sure, we already have the majority of the decade down. And Alabama fans will have to realize this inescapable fact, to get a NC, you will still have to beat AU to go to the SEC championship to even be considered, and that my friend is your Achilles heel.

    Blow tide, WDE!

  88. 99
    capstonereport

    FYI, I’m not Shane.

    I agree with this point completely: that coaches and players have a big impact on the outcome on the field.

    Of course, you suggest coaching is the definitive difference. I don’t reject that notion per se. But I’ll always hold player quality is a big key too. When you control for quality of competition, you arrive at a statistically compelling argument—that top recruits are a strong predictor of winning percentage.

    But it gets back to your point about coaching. What makes a great coach in this era of football? I’d argue Les Miles is close to a mental deficient; however, great talent won him the national title more than coaching.

    I’d say Tuberville is about 1,000x better than Miles, but talent somehow won that encounter.

    As for statistics, having spent too many hours in college having to go over them I firmly believe you have to be very careful in the conclusions you draw. You’ve gone over AP ranking and compared to recruiting ranking (or as SMQ did winning percentage and recruiting ranking). The key problem with your method is that you didn’t look at how teams performed vs. strength of opposition. Control for that, and the statistics look like we’d expect—high recruit ranking means success versus those with lower recruiting ranks.

    But in the end, I think I understand your position better with our discussion….I agree with your point that it has to be a mixture of players and coaching.

  89. 100
    Ballplay Indian

    Capstone, I believe every coach would love to have a 5 star over a 4 or 3. But that is with all other things being equal.
    I believe Johns was a high 4 star and MR FOOTBALL of Miss.

    We see how well that one worked out.

    I thought Blackman was going to be a bust as well. Actually was wanting him off the team, but they let him stay and it is working out so far.

    I guess Im saying that it is much easier to judge athletic ability than character.

    Coaches want to be able to give their players second chances, But in some cases it comes back to haunt them.

  90. 101
    capstonereport

    I completely agree. Character matters. And getting rid of the cancer fast is better than letting it fester.

  91. 102
    RedneckTider

    Having talent is one thing. You can take a guys who runs the 40 in 4.3 and make him a receiver but if he can’t run routes and catch the ball what is the point? The same is said of every other position on the field. I have a problem with ranking players with stars and whatever. I look at it from this point of view: Who is ranking these players to begin with? Are they being ranked on athletic ability or what some so called recruiting expert says is athletic ability? You NEVER know how a recruit will pan out. Auburn has signed 5 star players that never set foot on campus much less played.. same with Alabama. Coaching is a HUGH part of it. They can have all the talent in the world, but if that talent isn’t channeled and used correctly what good is it? That is where coaching comes in. Players don’t get out there and just run around. The coaches TEACH them the offense and defense. I disagree about Les Miles. Talent ONLY takes you so far. The guy can coach.

  92. 103
    bunchamorons

    lets look at Sabans record at Lsu….against the elite teams..Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, and an Average Alabama Team…..His record was average. He is a great coach with a great record against the pansies. Don’t look for anything to change. Yeah, he did win The BCS in 03, but lets not kid ourselves, he fell ass backwards into that!

  93. 105
    Ballplay Indian

    Capstone, on a scale of 1-10 how do you rate Sabans classes in terms of character? Harris on the high end of the spectrum Jones on the lower end, yeah I know . Im talking as a whole. The reason I ask is cause Im wondering if this trend ends with Shulas boys.

  94. 106
    D.Bene

    Most good coaches in the SEC have an “average” record against the other good teams. That’s what makes the league so competitive.

  95. 107
    aubman82

    Hey shaneola…
    Where is the article denouncing jimmy johns??? Where is the article calling for the firing of the sabanator? IF this had been an Auburn player, you would have had an article up on the crapstain report the next day. Why aren’t you questioning saban’s discipline? Why aren’t you writing about how johns should have been let go last year when he violated rules? 10 arrests in 10 months? Come on shaneola….let’s hear your spin on this!!! Let’s see you criticize saban like you would have criticized Coach Tuberville. Your silence just shows you have no guts and no principles.

  96. 108
    Ballplay Indian

    Aubman..
    There are no discipline problems at Bama. your just imagining things. All is well in Tuscaloosa. Saban is a great disciplinarian. If there were any problems at the capstone the mighty Saban would just atomize the fool with his gaze. With him being a Jedi Knight and everything he can make weak minded fools obey his every command. Plus if there were any kind of a problem Shane would certainly address it here , on the all informative capstone report.

    No , no , no problems at Bama.

    If they say it enough then it must be true.

  97. 110
    SHANE'S PAIN

    PAROLE TIDE PAROLE!

    Got 12? (arrests)

    As Shane said:
    “Most reasonable SEC football fans would agree that the true measure of a team’s dominance over its conference foes can’t be judged accurately unless the overall record is used as the primary source.”

    What is Bama’s overall record in the past year? Please include arrests, coaching faux paus and Stabler issues. Never mind, I don’t think there are any “reasonable” Bama fans associated w/ this site!

    ITS GREAT TO BE AN AUBURN TIGER!

  98. 111
    SHANE'S PAIN

    Hey Shane, even Notre Dame made this top 25. Where’s this number 1 class that you believe will take Bama to the promise land! 3-9 Notre Dame, 7-6 Bama, what a process, what a tradition!

    Per ESPN.com June 25, 2008/Mark Schlabach
    The calendar turns to July next week, leaving a little more than two months until the 2008 season kicks off.

    If your favorite team made headlines during the past two months, the news probably wasn’t good. Off-field problems and arrests have littered the college football landscape since spring practice ended, affecting many of the country’s top teams.

    Georgia and Ohio State remain atop the preseason Top 25 poll for 2008, although the Bulldogs and Buckeyes have flipped top spots since the May 9 edition.

    And in what should be a surprise for many college football fans, Notre Dame debuts at No. 25 — even after last season’s 3-9 disaster.

    1. Georgia Bulldogs
    Bulldogs coach Mark Richt has some lingering personnel issues as preseason camp approaches. Starting fullback Brannan Southerland, one of the country’s best lead blockers, will miss the first five games with a foot injury. Possible starting defensive end Jeremy Lomax and offensive lineman Clint Boling have pending legal problems; Lomax was arrested on concealed weapons charges and Boling was charged with DUI. But QB Matthew Stafford and RB Knowshon Moreno keep the expectations high in Athens.

    2. Ohio State Buckeyes
    Starting quarterback Todd Boeckman better stay healthy after backup Antonio Henton transferred to Division I-AA Georgia Southern. Henton’s departure opens the door for highly regarded freshman Terrelle Pryor, who might be utilized like Florida’s Tim Tebow was used as a freshman.

    3. Oklahoma Sooners
    Sooners coach Bob Stoops spent much of the spring talking to boosters about his team’s 5-1 record in Big 12 championship games. But many OU boosters still want to know what went wrong in Oklahoma’s 1-4 record in its past five bowl games. Oklahoma’s players are reminded of their 48-28 loss to West Virginia in the Fiesta Bowl each time they walk into the school’s football complex. A banner displays a quote from Mountaineers quarterback Patrick White, who said his team “wanted it more.”

    4. USC Trojans
    A video of USC assistant coach Brennan Carroll putting walk-ons through a tryout was yanked off YouTube after some viewers objected to the coach’s foul language. Trojans coach Pete Carroll said the video was a spoof and his program was only trying to have fun. What’s not funny: The NCAA is poking around alleged rules violations involving former Trojans basketball star O.J. Mayo — and is still trying to get to the bottom of the Reggie Bush scandal.

    5. Florida Gators
    Bad news for Florida’s opponents: Speedy junior receiver Percy Harvin is ahead of schedule in his recovery from offseason heel surgery. Gators coach Urban Meyer believes his offense might be better than it was a year ago, when Florida led the SEC in scoring with 42.5 points per game. Just don’t ask Meyer if quarterback Tim Tebow will run the football less often in 2008; that subject remains taboo in Gainesville.

    6. Clemson Tigers
    Tigers coach Tommy Bowden can begin feeling the pressure from his new $1.83 million contract. Clemson will try to win its first ACC title under Bowden without starting middle linebacker Cortney Vincent, who was dismissed from the team in May. Vincent started 12 of 13 games and had 68 tackles and seven tackles for loss. The Tigers will now be without their top four linebackers from last season.

    7. West Virginia Mountaineers
    Mountaineers coach Bill Stewart dismissed safety Charles Pugh from the team following his arrest for allegedly using a stolen credit card. Pugh is the fourth West Virginia player — and third potential defensive starter — to be dismissed from the team by Stewart. Linebacker John Holmes and defensive lineman James Ingram were kicked off the team following their arrests for possession of marijuana. Stewart allowed former running back Jason Gwaltney to rejoin the team, but he won’t be eligible to play during the 2008 season.

    8. Texas Tech Red Raiders
    The battle for the starting tailback job got a little thinner when Red Raiders coach Mike Leach suspended junior Kobey Lewis from the team for an unspecified violation of team rules. Lewis, who ran 50 times for 189 yards and two touchdowns in 2007, left spring practice in a four-player battle for the starting job. Shannon Woods, Baron Batch and Aaron Crawford will continue the competition during preseason camp. Safety Steven Harris, a special-teams standout, also was suspended for the 2008 season.

    9. Missouri Tigers
    The defending Big 12 North champions started voluntary summer workouts a week earlier for the second year in a row. The Tigers are without junior receiver Danario Alexander, who caught 37 passes for 417 yards and two touchdowns last season. Alexander underwent surgery earlier this month to repair damage in his left knee. There is good news for Missouri coach Gary Pinkel. Tight end Chase Coffman is fully recovered from surgery to remove bone spurs from his ankle.

    10. Auburn Tigers
    New offensive coordinator Tony Franklin still hasn’t settled on a starting quarterback, so offseason workouts will be very important for Chris Todd and Kodi Burns. Todd, a JC transfer, seems to have a better understanding of Franklin’s spread offense, but he was plagued by shoulder problems during spring practice. Burns is a better runner, but Franklin wants to see more consistency from the sophomore.

    11. Texas Longhorns
    Backup quarterback John Chiles will spend the summer trying to get a better grip of the offense. With the Longhorns trying to replace tailback Jamaal Charles, coach Mack Brown said he intends to use starting quarterback Colt McCoy and Chiles on offense. Look for Texas to be more creative on offense, incorporating some of the trick plays it used in a 52-34 victory over Arizona State in the Holiday Bowl.

    12. LSU Tigers
    All eyes are on LSU’s quarterbacks this summer, after heir apparent Ryan Perrilloux was dismissed from the team during the spring. Tigers coach Les Miles hinted during speaking engagements this spring that junior Andrew Hatch, a Harvard transfer, might have the edge over redshirt freshman Jarrett Lee. Highly regarded freshman Jordan Jefferson joins the competition during preseason camp.

    13. BYU Cougars
    The Cougars have their sights set on a BCS bowl invitation, but they’ll have to do it without top fullback Manase Tonga. The senior was ruled academically ineligible and will miss the 2008 season. Tonga ran for 305 yards and eight touchdowns and caught 27 passes for 248 yards last season. He also was a great lead blocker for Harvey Unga, who last year became the first BYU freshman to run for more than 1,000 yards in a season.

    14. Tennessee Volunteers
    New starting quarterback Jonathan Crompton is throwing again after undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right elbow in late April. Crompton and the Volunteers’ returning receivers will need summer workouts to iron out the offense installed by new offensive coordinator Dave Clawson. The Vols are holding their collective breath while waiting to see if junior running back Montario Hardesty fully recovers from a stress fracture in his lower leg.

    15. Arizona State Sun Devils
    Sun Devils coach Dennis Erickson said quarterback Rudy Carpenter has fully recovered after undergoing surgery on his right thumb following spring practice. Erickson said Carpenter is in better physical condition and showed better mobility. Michael Jones, the Sun Devils’ most experienced receiver, was selected in the 29th round of the amateur baseball draft by the New York Yankees earlier this month.

    16. Wisconsin Badgers
    Kansas State transfer Allan Evridge wasn’t named the Badgers’ starting quarterback after spring practice, but the fifth-year senior has the edge over less experienced candidates. Coach Bret Bielema hopes Evrdige will take control of the team during voluntary summer workouts, but junior Dustin Sherer remains in the hunt for the starting job. Sherer has spent three seasons in the Wisconsin program, attempting only three passes.

    17. Kansas Jayhawks
    Juco running back Jocques Crawford arrived in Lawrence for summer school and immediately turned heads. Crawford ran for nearly 2,000 yards and 19 touchdowns at Cisco (Texas) Junior College. The national JC player of the year is expected to share carries with junior Jake Sharp in the Jayhawks’ spread offense this coming season.

    18. Illinois Fighting Illini
    Senior receiver Kyle Hudson, who caught 12 passes for 127 yards and one touchdown last season, will forgo his final season of eligibility. Hudson, a two-sport star, was selected by the Baltimore Orioles in the fourth round of the amateur baseball draft earlier this month.

    19. Pittsburgh Panthers
    Sophomore Maurice Williams, the Panthers’ most impressive receiver during spring practice, has been ruled academically ineligible for the 2008 season. Williams, who caught five passes for 100 yards last season, was battling Oderick Turner for the starting split end job. Williams plans to remain in school and would have three seasons of eligibility remaining.

    20. Virginia Tech Hokies
    The Hokies are hoping redshirt freshman Darren Evans has a better summer than their previous starting tailback did. Evans, a former Indiana Mr. Football, emerged as the leading contender to start at tailback after Branden Ore was dismissed from the team. Evans had a slight edge over redshirt freshman Josh Oglesby after spring practice. Juniors Kenny Lewis Jr. and Jahre Cheeseman were sidelined by injuries during the spring.

    21. Oregon Ducks
    Can Oregon’s quarterback competition get any more crowded? The Ducks figure to have at least six players battling for the right to replace Dennis Dixon when preseason camp opens. Sophomore Nate Costa, who had knee surgery last fall, left spring practice as the favorite. Sophomore Justin Roper, who starred in the Sun Bowl victory over South Florida, is probably his closest competitor. Two freshmen — Darron Thomas and Chris Harper — enrolled at Oregon before spring drills, and JC transfer Jeremiah Masoli joins the battle this summer. Junior walk-on Cade Cooper also is competing for the job.

    22. Wake Forest Demon Deacons
    How much have expectations changed in Winston-Salem, N.C.? The Demon Deacons are again considered to be ACC championship contenders after posting consecutive winning seasons, which included the 2006 ACC title. Since the ACC was formed in 1953, the Demon Deacons have never had three straight winning seasons.

    23. Fresno State Bulldogs
    The Bulldogs open the season at Rutgers on Sept. 1, but coach Pat Hill is calling the Sept. 13 home game against Wisconsin the biggest game in Bulldog Stadium history. With 16 starters back from a team that finished 9-4 in 2007, Fresno State is a popular choice to unseat Boise State and Hawaii in the WAC and contend for a spot in a BCS bowl game.

    24. Penn State Nittany Lions
    Penn State’s five senior captains vow the off-field problems that plagued the Nittany Lions before the 2007 season are a thing of the past. During a news conference in Happy Valley earlier this month, senior linebacker Sean Lee told reporters, “If you want to be on this team, you have to be with us. If not, get out.” One thing that won’t go away: speculation about 81-year-old coach Joe Paterno’s future at Penn State.

    25. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
    Athletic director Kevin White leaving Notre Dame for Duke might have been a sign of impending doom for the Fighting Irish, but NBC thought enough of their future to renew its TV contract another five years. Notre Dame returns 17 starters, including quarterback Jimmy Clausen. The Irish schedule includes four home games in the first five weeks of the season, and Charlie Weis might have the right mix to get Notre Dame back into a bowl game.

    Mark Schlabach covers college football and men’s college basketball for ESPN.com. You can contact him at schlabachma@yahoo.com.

  99. 112
    m johnson

    Ballplay Indian….the mighty Shane will never address the real issues on the Crapstain report. He’s like a little third grader that throws his rocks, then runs and hides. He hasn’t figured out yet that people like him who live in glass houses, shouldn’t throw stones..
    Have you heard of the newest drink at bammer. It’s the Jack (Snake) and Coke (Jimmy)……..
    What a complete group of thugs. Everytime you think it can’t get worse, somehow it does. Selling cocaine on the once sacred football grounds. That’s what that place has come to. Nothing but thugs running wild, selling dope in their football complex parking lot. Right under Dinky Saban’s window…but wait, Dinky doesn’t live in that stinky town called Tuscalooser. No, he’s fat and happy on a lake over in Georgia. Maybe if he actually lived in the community that pays his outrageous salary, he would have a better handle on things. He’s nothing but a hired gun that could care less about the Crimson Tide. A whore, as it was….

  100. 113
    aubman82

    shaneola….

    We’re still waiting on your article criticizing the mighty sabanator for his lack of discipline and lack of control over his thugs. Why haven’t you called for his firing yet? If Coach Tuberville had 10 arrests in 10 months you’d be driving the moving van to his house.
    Come on shane……what are you? Chicken?

  101. 115
    Kenny

    Saban hasn’t won anything at Bama yet so quit acting like he is Bear Bryant.
    If I paid out $4 million and only got 7 wins I wouldn’t be bragging I would be hiding.

  102. 116
    Charles

    once again living in the past!!!!! Bear is dead, has been dead, and will stay dead and the past decade has not been one that Alabama fans want to remember. You are boasting about a record and wont face the fact that you are no longer the dominate program in the state, or the sec or the country for that matter

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